Steve Bruce

[Demitri_C]

24 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I really didn’t see this coming after the wolves win - I’m guilty myself of feeling we had maybe cracked it and maybe there was an air of complacency - certain.y for me there was a lack of desire and passion on Tuesday night - as for Saturday the pitch conditions were difficult and a great leveller - not an excuse but I felt Bolton had more hunger to their game but it’s hard to criticise players in those conditions as the ball wasn’t flowing like in a normal game .

im not sure we bottled it - more a case of taking our foot off the gas - hopefully it’s a lesson learnt but I dread having to play fulham in the play off final if that’s how it turns out .

I dont think many of us saw it. If i knew this were to happen I would have preferred a draw against wolves if it meant we didn't take our foot off vs QPR and Bolton.

It's been dreadful these last two. I think its been a bottle job. If it was just QPRyou could say ok maybe a one kff. But we were not much better against Bolton. It seems we are trying to do a impersonation of derby !

[Vive_La_Villa]

29 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I really didn’t see this coming after the wolves win - I’m guilty myself of feeling we had maybe cracked it and maybe there was an air of complacency - certain.y for me there was a lack of desire and passion on Tuesday night - as for Saturday the pitch conditions were difficult and a great leveller - not an excuse but I felt Bolton had more hunger to their game but it’s hard to criticise players in those conditions as the ball wasn’t flowing like in a normal game .

im not sure we bottled it - more a case of taking our foot off the gas - hopefully it’s a lesson learnt but I dread having to play fulham in the play off final if that’s how it turns out .

Agree with this. Nothing to do with bottling it. We’ve just been fairly beaten by 2 teams we expected to beat so it’s hard to stomach. There will be a lot of shock results from now until the end of the season for a number of reasons.  Fulham were lucky to hold on against QPR. 

Cardiff have been grinding out results and surprising everyone.  There’s always one team that manages this. 

Wolves are just head and shoulders above anyone in the league and the way they bounced back after losing to us shows this.  

It’s unfortunate that we’ve had a team so much better than everyone else as there’s only really been one automatic spot to play for all season. 

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Dave J said:

TRO - you are probably the most balanced and measured person on here - however you do in my opinion have s blind spot when it comes to Bruce and his managerial abilities.

i feel most people would acknowledge that Jokanovic and Wagner are both tactically more astute than Bruce is ever likely to be imo.

Look there is little point in going over old ground - but you should remember we have been not good longer than we have been good under Bruce - both from a win ratio and quality of fayre on offer.

i am of the opinion that he absolutely stays until our destiny is known - but if we fail in the play off final I am also of the opinion that he goes immediately- TRO in  footballing terms Bruce is light years behind these guys whether we like it or not.

He has 4 promotions on his CV mainly due to longevity  in the game rather than any great ability again in my opinion. Your loyalties are to be applauded to a degree but also questionable to the same degree imo. TRO 

Dave, i appreciate your point.....but football and tactics is not what is causing our problem.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing in the view of other managers been more tactically aware, but i think you are barking up the wrong tree....just my opinion.

We have the footballing ability in our squad to beat any team in this division.....its other things we are struggling with.

We get yellows and create nuisance value, sure, but we are not strong and powerful enough in the challenge....its hard at this level to get players to be good at everything.

Our centre mid is lightweight Imo....they are good at somethings but powder puff in the air and with upper body work....they struggle to control or dominate the centre which has a knock on effect to other area's.

I have a particular concern over our inability to win loose aerial balls, its a barometer that spells lightweight.....The sharks smell blood and get in to us.....as a result, the superior footballing skills some of our players possess, gets too easily negated, we haven't got the pace either to get away from trouble.

personally, I don't think the squad has enough diversity to cope with varying situations/ conditions, albeit injuries have conspired against us.

my loyalties are not as blinded as you may think.....but I see no value in constantly criticising a guy, who in my opinion has done a good job in terms of rebuild.I still don't think the squad is rounded enough, too much samey.

I also do not subscribe to the theory that the players don't care, they all care.

some of the games i have witnessed, its been like David vGoliath in terms of physical presence.....SB needs to find a way of dealing with that.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont think many of us saw it. If i knew this were to happen I would have preferred a draw against wolves if it meant we didn't take our foot off vs QPR and Bolton.

It's been dreadful these last two. I think its been a bottle job. If it was just QPRyou could say ok maybe a one kff. But we were not much better against Bolton. It seems we are trying to do a impersonation of derby !

We was right to beat Wolves the way we did and it proved we can play football and win tactical battles.....our players have talent.

The next 2 games showed, where our weakness lies.....we don't like or do well at mixing it.....we allow ourselves to be pushed around and relieved of the ball, much too easily....our competitors are less likely to allow it.

I am confident for the play offs, because we can mix it with anyone who wants to play football.....The ones who want to out muscle us, and fight for every ball,sadly have too much success.

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

We was right to beat Wolves the way we did and it proved we can play football and win tactical battles.....our players have talent.

The next 2 games showed, where our weakness lies.....we don't like or do well at mixing it.....we allow ourselves to be pushed around and relieved of the ball, much too easily....our competitors are less likely to allow it.

I am confident for the play offs, because we can mix it with anyone who wants to play football...

We've been outplayed multiple times by teams passing it this season. Our downfall is no instruction from the manager. There is no plan. We have no style.

Bruce has lucked out getting this job, and funds to buy (and pay) expensive players.

I hope they can get us up.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, terrytini said:

I think Bruce has made a few errors this week, both games, in selection and tactics. He has pretty much said so himself.

I think the players ( and Fans) hit a High against Wolves which has been followed by a dip - seen it often enough. It isn’t inevitable but it’s not uncommon.

Three times I’ve wanted Bruce out, last Spring, after 4 or 5 games this season, and befor3 Christmas. Each time, the same reason, that he appeared incapable - in my personal view due  to an overly cautious approach, (NOT because he didn’t understand game management or tactics..... I happen to think that’s a ludicrous suggestion relating to someone who has played and managed at a high level for so long) of getting the best from a talented enough squad.

I don’t think it’s a squad of world beaters, it may not be the best in the League, but it had more talent than was evident, in my view. I saw then, and see now, no real relevance in how much he has or hasn’t spent. I think spending only really makes a big difference at the top of the Premier League.

Since December I’ve seen him add the positive thrust I thought missing. It certainly brought results.

I don’t agree with those who say we can’t compete with physical sides, and I don’t agree with those who say we can’t compete with possession sides. 

I think we compete all but as well as any team other than Wolves, as evidenced by our League position.

I haven’t seen anything in these two defeats, nor the one by Fulham, that makes me question his managerial ability. In my view, he has made some errors, some players haven’t performed, and we’ve paid. But it happens. It’s football, and we are a Championship side, with a Championship Manager, we are not Barcelona.

I find the building up of other Managers ( sometimes named, but the names chang3 monthly.... more often just described as “ younger and more progressive/ modern/ etc) rather perplexing.....with Managers it’s right time right Club as much as anything, there are countless examples of someone doing a good job at oneClub, or for one season, only to later fail. There is no magic Manager...if there was, we’d be a long way down the list of Clubs who’d get him. You find your own one and it clicks, if you are lucky. If you aren’t, you have to try again.

As far as I can see ( and the table backs it up) Bruce is doing a good job. I see no logic at all in the idea that if we miss out we go out and start all over again. I know some do......especially just now and I understand why.....but it makes no sense to me.

I don’t buy the argument that he should be judged against what a hypothetical different person might have done, or what different people with different players at different Clubs with different pressures and different recent history’s are doing.

If we still played, and accrued Points, the same as we were I’d say we are getting nowhere.....but we don’t play the same, we Win more, we score more, we are more resilient, there is a better character about the side.

He is flawed. We, as a side, are flawed, but that’s as far as it goes for me. I think he’s doing a good job, and see no reason as yet as to why we would be better if he leaves in May, but several reasons why we could regret it.

 

 

 

I couldn't write a better post, if I tried.

my only query would be this......I think we have got a physical, issue.I think physical sides find it too easy to stop us playing, paricularly Centre Mid.....Now how you combat that, I'm not sure.

Its not a criticism, more an observation.

The rest is Brill, Imo.

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by TRO

[Demitri_C]

12 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

We've been outplayed multiple times by teams passing it this season. Our downfall is no instruction from the manager. There is no plan. We have no style.

Bruce has lucked out getting this job, and funds to buy (and pay) expensive players.

I hope they can get us up.

I see it more this way @TRO to be honest

He literally showed how limited he is by playing four strikers out of deep. That was just embarassing.

[Zatman]

international break has come at a good time at least

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

We've been outplayed multiple times by teams passing it this season. Our downfall is no instruction from the manager. There is no plan. We have no style.

Bruce has lucked out getting this job, and funds to buy (and pay) expensive players.

I hope they can get us up.

I simply disagree....of course we have a styl and gameplan ...it was clear to see against Wolves.

the second line is laughable.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I see it more this way @TRO to be honest

He literally showed how limited he is by playing four strikers out of deep. That was just embarassing.

That was just throwing caution to the wind, when everything else had failed.

last throw of the dice......but when you get to that stage, of course its embarrassing.

[sne]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I couldn't write a better post, if I tried.

my only query would be this......I think we have got a physical, issue.I think physical sides find it too easy to stop us playing, paricularly Centre Mid.....Now how you combat that, I'm not sure.

Its not a criticism, more an observation.

The rest is Brill, Imo.

 

I'd say like we should have done like every other team that is successful over time.

By having well practiced movement patterns,  clear instructions, multiple tactics and formations in place that the players are comfortable in.

Pass and move, make yourself available and find open space. Make runs to open up space for teammates and stretch the opponents.

Drill in these things so that the players know them in their sleep. Having this in place ensures that you are much harder to close down meaning size is less of an issue

If plan a isn't working, adjust.

It's all very basic stuff, but it takes time, attention and dedication from both players, manager and coaches.

I don't buy into the idea that you need a 6ft 5 brute in CM to win games in the Championship, just just have to be smarter than the opponents.

Trying to out muscle Cardiff wont work, trying to win the aerial battle against most sides wont be the way to go either.

But I can guarantee that (almost) all Championship sides have flaws bigger than ours that we can and should exploit. 

[AntrimBlack]

15 hours ago, TRO said:

So who?

Not my job, Tro. I am only a fan and not sufficiently informed. People are earning huge salaries to make those sort of decisions.

[Tomaszk]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

I simply disagree....of course we have a styl and gameplan ...it was clear to see against Wolves.

the second line is laughable.

Do the last two matches make it clear we don't?

Maybe we can agree whatever it is isn't being executed consistently.

Current issue for me is that no attempt has been made to make us less reliant on Grealish. It's up to him 100% of the time to get us up the pitch. It's up to him to feed Snodgrass and Adomah. He decides how we play because he goes looking for the ball. This was clear right through our great run. If he gets injured our season is over, we could drop out the playoffs. I hope Bruce sees this and can change personnel who won't let him down.

[Tomaszk]

16 minutes ago, sne said:

I'd say like we should have done like every other team that is successful over time.

By having well practiced movement patterns,  clear instructions, multiple tactics and formations in place that the players are comfortable in.

Pass and move, make yourself available and find open space. Make runs to open up space for teammates and stretch the opponents.

Drill in these things so that the players know them in their sleep. Having this in place ensures that you are much harder to close down meaning size is less of an issue

If plan a isn't working, adjust.

It's all very basic stuff, but it takes time, attention and dedication from both players, manager and coaches.

I don't buy into the idea that you need a 6ft 5 brute in CM to win games in the Championship, just just have to be smarter than the opponents.

Trying to out muscle Cardiff wont work, trying to win the aerial battle against most sides wont be the way to go either.

But I can guarantee that (almost) all Championship sides have flaws bigger than ours that we can and should exploit. 

Yes yes yes.

Quite what we've been doing in training that isn't this I don't know.

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Dave, i appreciate your point.....but football and tactics is not what is causing our problem.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing in the view of other managers been more tactically aware, but i think you are barking up the wrong tree....just my opinion.

We have the footballing ability in our squad to beat any team in this division.....its other things we are struggling with.

We get yellows and create nuisance value, sure, but we are not strong and powerful enough in the challenge....its hard at this level to get players to be good at everything.

Our centre mid is lightweight Imo....they are good at somethings but powder puff in the air and with upper body work....they struggle to control or dominate the centre which has a knock on effect to other area's.

I have a particular concern over our inability to win loose aerial balls, its a barometer that spells lightweight.....The sharks smell blood and get in to us.....as a result, the superior footballing skills some of our players possess, gets too easily negated, we haven't got the pace either to get away from trouble.

personally, I don't think the squad has enough diversity to cope with varying situations/ conditions, albeit injuries have conspired against us.

my loyalties are not as blinded as you may think.....but I see no value in constantly criticising a guy, who in my opinion has done a good job in terms of rebuild.I still don't think the squad is rounded enough, too much samey.

I also do not subscribe to the theory that the players don't care, they all care.

some of the games i have witnessed, its been like David vGoliath in terms of physical presence.....SB needs to find a way of dealing with that.

Do you not think, therefor, Tro, that with his experience in the Championship, Bruce should have bought the players with the qualities required in this division.

[striker]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

Ha ha after 20 wins and just conceding 3rd place.....you have the audacity to pull me up for being iffy.

spare me the embarrassment.

who gives a flying **** how much money he or uncle tom cobley spends its a weak effort to give vent to your emotions.....Its pathetic, quite frankly......How much has West Ham spent.....drop it, its nonsense.....money just gives you a chance, not a guarantee.

Money just opens doors to the players you want, they still might not be the right ones, given time it tells.

Your judgement in my opinion is just based on getting what you want and to hell with anything else.....sack em all and just keep sacking em until we find the one that gets us what we want.

For me and only me, your rationale is disturbing.

support him and shelve your disappointment....there is not a rake of managers better.

That’s some post TRO.

If as you imply managers shouldn’t be judged on players purchased, how much money they’ve spent in relation to others and their remit then how should we as fans and respective club boards judge whether managers are doing a good job or not?

Furthermore, as has been pointed out to you time and time again whenever you bring out the ‘there is not a rake of managers better’ point there are teams above Villa this and last season with managers who have had far less resources to fall back on. That is a very good argument which you continually fail to consider.

I see you’ve also mentioned personal dislike of the manager as to why some are criticising him. That’s more than a tad unfair. Most on here have praised him when the team has done well and criticised when he hasn’t. That I’m afraid is the natural way of things something which in your defence of Bruce you seemingly fail to grab hold of.

Bruce’s remit this season is clear. It’s promotion or bust. He said so himself and he personally is under no illusions what will happen if he fails. He has also set out his transfer policy on that basis bringing in experienced players nearing the end of their careers to try and insure promotion rather than trying to bring more of the younger players through even when injuries hit.

At the moment it is now looking like automatic promotion is beyond Villa. That may change of course but if it doesn’t and Villa have to settle for the playoffs then that is the bare minimum of expectation and some would argue with the personnel and resources made available to him, it falls below that.

Edited March 19, 2018 by striker

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

.of course we have a styl and gameplan ...it was clear to see against Wolves.

The problem is we have one style and gameplan that doesn’t work if we go behind in a game.

That is what is costing us. 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, sne said:

I'd say like we should have done like every other team that is successful over time.

By having well practiced movement patterns,  clear instructions, multiple tactics and formations in place that the players are comfortable in.

Pass and move, make yourself available and find open space. Make runs to open up space for teammates and stretch the opponents.

Drill in these things so that the players know them in their sleep. Having this in place ensures that you are much harder to close down meaning size is less of an issue

If plan a isn't working, adjust.

It's all very basic stuff, but it takes time, attention and dedication from both players, manager and coaches.

I don't buy into the idea that you need a 6ft 5 brute in CM to win games in the Championship, just just have to be smarter than the opponents.

Trying to out muscle Cardiff wont work, trying to win the aerial battle against most sides wont be the way to go either.

But I can guarantee that (almost) all Championship sides have flaws bigger than ours that we can and should exploit. 

Now, that's a post.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, sne said:

I'd say like we should have done like every other team that is successful over time.

By having well practiced movement patterns,  clear instructions, multiple tactics and formations in place that the players are comfortable in.

Pass and move, make yourself available and find open space. Make runs to open up space for teammates and stretch the opponents.

Drill in these things so that the players know them in their sleep. Having this in place ensures that you are much harder to close down meaning size is less of an issue

If plan a isn't working, adjust.

It's all very basic stuff, but it takes time, attention and dedication from both players, manager and coaches.

I don't buy into the idea that you need a 6ft 5 brute in CM to win games in the Championship, just just have to be smarter than the opponents.

Trying to out muscle Cardiff wont work, trying to win the aerial battle against most sides wont be the way to go either.

But I can guarantee that (almost) all Championship sides have flaws bigger than ours that we can and should exploit. 

Do you honestly think our people don't know that.....wasn't all what say on display against Wolves and Bristol....you don't just forget it.

I' m not asking for a 6' 5" brute, but it is a thought in a squad.....my point is this "never shall we verture down that route" type of play is having an effect on undoing us.

There are many counter moves I guess, we need to find one.

[Eastie]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Do you honestly think our people don't know that.....wasn't all what say on display against Wolves and Bristol....you don't just forget it.

I' m not asking for a 6' 5" brute, but it is a thought in a squad.....my point is this "never shall we verture down that route" type of play is having an effect on undoing us.

There are many counter moves I guess, we need to find one.

I think the thing with Bristol city and wolves is they both came to play an open game  and that played into our hands somewhat - we struggle to break teams down who come to defend - and we are susceptible to being hit on the break - add to that we seem to concede a few goals from corners where recently we’ve looked all over the place .