Steve Bruce

[hippo]

Whatever your opinions of SB - I do wish people would stop hyping up (or down) what he says in press conferences as of significance. I believe it is a requirement of sky that he has to a do these press conferences. There is only so much that can be said - 'Im really pleased - we played well - I m not happy we didn't play well'  - it really doesn't make a jot of difference going forward.

I liked and wanted Bruce - going forward I feel he should be able to get more out of that squad. He should be judged on that - which has little to do with what he says or doesn't say in a press conference.

[Dr_Pangloss]

We didn't buy well enough in the summer, we spent enormous sums of money on players who don't deliver anywhere near enough. Even the so-called 'shining light' of our signings, Kodjia, is continuing to expose his own limitations and simply doesn't show up for away games.

This of course is not Bruce's fault, I can only hope he has resources to make some of his own signings in Jan.

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

For last night, I think we tried to cover up a weakness by making a strength stronger - in the end, the weakness just gets worse and the strength is completely lost - it doesn't help when within that the forwards don't actually play well.

I agree and I think Bruce is having the same issues that RDM had in trying to make up for a poor midfield by overloading the forwards and like under RDM it isn’t working. The difference being though that the problems for RDM were of his own making whereas Bruce as inherited them.

I also think one of the major issues we have is that our players don’t link up well together. There are no partnerships on the pitch and no understandings have been formed.

At centre back I think Baker and Chester were building a partnership and looking solid but with Elphick we look weaker. In centre midfield we continually chop and change due to the poor options. Up top we have too many players who want to do it all on their own and who never look up choosing to try and beat 2 or 3 players 2 or 3 times. There is no interplay, no quick one two’s, no pass and move into space etc.

I think we perhaps need a change in approach and accept the best players won’t necessarily make the best team. Looking at us until reinforcements can be bought in I think it may be time to go with a 4-4-2 especially away from home. For now the backline would have to stay the same unless Baker is fit. In centre midfield I would go with Jedi and one of Tish, Westwood, Gardner, and in the wide midfield positions Bacuna and Adomah with Kodjia and McCormack playing as a pair up top.

That obviously means leaving out Grealish who for me is our best player but this 3 in midfield, 3 up top isn’t working with the personnel we have and I am not sure I see him in a 4-4-2 where the wide midfielders job should be to stay wide, stretch the play and get the ball into the box when we are on the offensive and help out tracking back and being an extra man in the middle when we are defending.

We have goal scorers in the squad. McCormack is a proven 20 odd goal a season player at this level, Kodjia is capable of the same, Gestede if played to his strengths is capable of 15-20 goals. At the moment we will do well to score 50 goals as a team this season and the reason for this is the lack of creativity from midfield but also the fact we aren’t playing players to their strengths up top. McCormack has been played out wide, Kodjia likewise, Gestede plays but no one gets to the by line and puts crosses in. We have to try something different to get the best out of the forwards and until we can change the personnel in midfield it means changing the formation. Shoehorning players into the side and playing them out of position has to stop.

[vreitti]

38 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

We have goal scorers in the squad. McCormack is a proven 20 odd goal a season player at this level, Kodjia is capable of the same, Gestede if played to his strengths is capable of 15-20 goals. At the moment we will do well to score 50 goals as a team this season and the reason for this is the lack of creativity from midfield but also the fact we aren’t playing players to their strengths up top. McCormack has been played out wide, Kodjia likewise, Gestede plays but no one gets to the by line and puts crosses in. We have to try something different to get the best out of the forwards and until we can change the personnel in midfield it means changing the formation. Shoehorning players into the side and playing them out of position has to stop.

Yet we've only averaged a goal per game thus far. This is the REAL problem. Why isn't Bruce fixing it?

[Demitri_C]

On 19/11/2016 at 06:50, KSV said:

we were told we are signing leaders.  Didn't see any bloody leadership yesterday 

[KSV]

wonder if Lyden is fit

[Richard]

Wont quote anyone in particular but Ive seen suggestions we shouldnt judge him on the performance as the players at his disposal are crap.  Also seen that we shouldnt judge him on what he says as it doesn't make a difference.  So basically we shouldnt judge him then? So that means the decent run we have had we cant judge him on that either?

I will be open and say I wasn't keen on Bruce as manager but he is here now and I want him to succeed like you would not believe.  Does that mean I will not criticise when IMO it is justified ? No ,  just because he is Steve Bruce does not mean he is beyond criticism and just because I didnt want him as manager does not mean I am not allowed to be critical when it is warranted either ,  however much people want to throw it at me.

Last night he made a number of fundamental errors,  team selection,  tactics / formation,  decision making in changes all of these. Some say he gave them a bollocking at half time, well he failed in motivation as well then as the second half was worse than the first.

Last night was a very very bad day at the office,  but it has been coming.  We have  been poor since Brighton away I would suggest.  What has changed? Is it Calderwood coming on board? Who knows but our performances have notably dipped since Brighton.  And performances do matter,  despite people taking the piss out of me for saying it 3 points against Wigan is the minimum.  Goal difference may be an issue,  having a good performance to build on and motivate the team matters.  Them clicking together matters and building on that helps.  Having a turgid performance with a goal in the last minute does not help those things.  You cant keep playing badly and fluking a jammy win, it catches up with you.

I hope he turns it around and quickly,  not that we will go up this season but momentum into next season will help. But he will not turn it around by failing to recognise our problems or his share of the responsibility for those problems.  Him saying that last night "shows why the club brought me in to change that" or words to that effect basically tell me he is not recognising his own contribution and failing to address that.  That does him the club the players or the fans no favours at all.  Its ten games Steve,  your team selection,  your tactical talks,  your training methods,  your motivation,  or are we to say the first 7 games were nothing to do with you either then? You cant have one without the other.

[hippo]

5 minutes ago, Richard said:

Wont quote anyone in particular but Ive seen suggestions we shouldnt judge him on the performance as the players at his disposal are crap.  Also seen that we shouldnt judge him on what he says as it doesn't make a difference.  So basically we shouldnt judge him then? So that means the decent run we have had we cant judge him on that either?

I will be open and say I wasn't keen on Bruce as manager but he is here now and I want him to succeed like you would not believe.  Does that mean I will not criticise when IMO it is justified ? No ,  just because he is Steve Bruce does not mean he is beyond criticism and just because I didnt want him as manager does not mean I am not allowed to be critical when it is warranted either ,  however much people want to throw it at me.

Last night he made a number of fundamental errors,  team selection,  tactics / formation,  decision making in changes all of these. Some say he gave them a bollocking at half time, well he failed in motivation as well then as the second half was worse than the first.

Last night was a very very bad day at the office,  but it has been coming.  We have  been poor since Brighton away I would suggest.  What has changed? Is it Calderwood coming on board? Who knows but our performances have notably dipped since Brighton.  And performances do matter,  despite people taking the piss out of me for saying it 3 points against Wigan is the minimum.  Goal difference may be an issue,  having a good performance to build on and motivate the team matters.  Them clicking together matters and building on that helps.  Having a turgid performance with a goal in the last minute does not help those things.  You cant keep playing badly and fluking a jammy win, it catches up with you.

I hope he turns it around and quickly,  not that we will go up this season but momentum into next season will help. But he will not turn it around by failing to recognise our problems or his share of the responsibility for those problems.  Him saying that last night "shows why the club brought me in to change that" or words to that effect basically tell me he is not recognising his own contribution and failing to address that.  That does him the club the players or the fans no favours at all.  Its ten games Steve,  your team selection,  your tactical talks,  your training methods,  your motivation,  or are we to say the first 7 games were nothing to do with you either then? You cant have one without the other.

Re "what he says"  - its not just bruce - any manager - pre and post press conferences every game is overkill - there is only so much to say. People often said they liked they way Remi Garde conducted himself in interviews - personally I'm not interested. 

Bruce still has credit for me. - but thats because of his points haul up to recently - really I don't think what he say in twice weekly (at least) press conference has any bearing on whether he succeeds here or not.

 

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

Wont quote anyone in particular but Ive seen suggestions we shouldnt judge him on the performance as the players at his disposal are crap.  Also seen that we shouldnt judge him on what he says as it doesn't make a difference.  So basically we shouldnt judge him then? So that means the decent run we have had we cant judge him on that either?

Of course he can be judged but you have to take into account when doing so what he inherited in terms of personnel and the dire run we were on when he came in.

He has been here 10 games. We have won five and lost two. We played poorly on Saturday and he said we did. We were dire last night and he told it exactly how it was. In terms of what he is saying I see very little to take issue with although I am sure if I picked through what he has said I could find something to get my back up but in the grand scheme of things it matters very little.

Until January Bruce’s task was to get the best out of an unbalanced squad. Like RDM I  think he is trying to make up for a lack of quality in midfield by shoehorning players into a 4-3-3 out of position. Kodjia, McCormack, Ayew are not wide players. Unlike RDM though the unbalance of the squad was not of his own making and unlike RDM Bruce has actually managed to secure a decent amount of points.

In January he has to fill the gaps in the midfield that allow him to get the best out of the proven goal scorers we have in the squad. Until that time I guess he will have to continue to muddle through as we have done quite successfully under him overall so far. He certainly has to get more out of the players than he did last night though as regardless of our obvious shortcomings that was unacceptable which Bruce himself acknowledged in no uncertain terms.

Edited December 14, 2016 by markavfc40

[Johnnyp]

Said last night he's going to give fellas who have have been traveling with the squad the last few weeks a go on Sunday. He better do. Pathetic last night. Wouldn't be at all  opposed to seeing Tshibola, Green, Hepburn-Murphy play on Sunday, why not!

[philgetaway]

No offence to Bruce, because the squad simply has no balance.  But we need to stop playing strikers out on the wings.

Kodja, Ayew, and even Grealish, take so much time on the ball.  Beating a man, beating them again, before passing it back.  Kodja rarely puts in a decent cross, and Ayew just runs into cul-de-sacs.  By this time, the opposition are set - so easy to defend against.

Yesterday we were set-up for pacey counter attacks, but we forget that Gabby no longer has any attributes, never mind pace.  Plus Kodja and Ayew aren't Young and Downing - who naturally looked for a cross.

Watched City V Chelsea the other weekend, top class players there - all of which had no more than two touches on the ball.  They moved it quickly.  We just fanny about.  Annoyingly against a home crowd yesterday, that couldnt wait to get on their teams back, and a defence with zero confidence.

 

Small pitch at QPR on Sunday.  Id go Rudy up top, Mccormack in behind.  Adomah and Grealish out wide, and get some balls into the box.

[hippo]

18 minutes ago, philgetaway said:

No offence to Bruce, because the squad simply has no balance.  But we need to stop playing strikers out on the wings.

Kodja, Ayew, and even Grealish, take so much time on the ball.  Beating a man, beating them again, before passing it back.  Kodja rarely puts in a decent cross, and Ayew just runs into cul-de-sacs.  By this time, the opposition are set - so easy to defend against.

Yesterday we were set-up for pacey counter attacks, but we forget that Gabby no longer has any attributes, never mind pace.  Plus Kodja and Ayew aren't Young and Downing - who naturally looked for a cross.

Watched City V Chelsea the other weekend, top class players there - all of which had no more than two touches on the ball.  They moved it quickly.  We just fanny about.  Annoyingly against a home crowd yesterday, that couldnt wait to get on their teams back, and a defence with zero confidence.

 

Small pitch at QPR on Sunday.  Id go Rudy up top, Mccormack in behind.  Adomah and Grealish out wide, and get some balls into the box.

Couldn't agree more 

I really don't get where the idea that this slow build up creates goals. 

Give me Morley down the wing , beating a full back then putting a cross in - how hard can it be ?

 

[terrytini]

Bruce has already set his own standards of what can be got out of the squad, 'inherited' (aren't they all ?) or not.

Judging him by those hitherto pretty good standards isn't in any way unfair, and means that selection, tactics, and motivation can reasonably be criticised. Far more reasonable imo than going back to blaming the players.

We have seen that on the whole when Bruce gets it right we can do ok. Imo we have also seen what happens when he doesn't.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

32 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Said last night he's going to give fellas who have have been traveling with the squad the last few weeks a go on Sunday. He better do. Pathetic last night. Wouldn't be at all  opposed to seeing Tshibola, Green, Hepburn-Murphy play on Sunday, why not!

He probably should have given them a go last night ffs!!! I'm still not sure on RHM though.

Edited December 14, 2016 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[terrytini]

4 minutes ago, hippo said:

Couldn't agree more 

I really don't get where the idea that this slow build up creates goals. 

Give me Morley down the wing , beating a full back then putting a cross in - how hard can it be ?

 

I must admit that one of the puzzles to me has been the decisions that have ensured Adomah and Gestede avoid each other ; old fashioned I may be but one crossing the ball and the other heading it with either McCormack or Kodj lurking is surely worth at least a go ?

[Grasshopper]

I think SB just got it wrong. my concern is that over the last few games, its been heading that way.

I could suffer Hutton if we dominate possesion, so to do that we need numbers in MF

Bacuna Jedi Tish & Amavi

We need outlets, RW/LW

RW Adomah 

LW Amavi  (thats a lot of ground to cover

Grealish or McC need to pull the strings

Kodjia through the middle

so Its either

4-3-2-1 (Amavi owning the left)

or

4-1-4-1

Bacuna Chester Baker Amavi

Jedi

Adomah Tish Grealish ?

Kodjia

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Funny thing is when we started off, even though things weren't clicking, we actually looked confident and I thought we would come into the game, we didn't, only got worse.

Norwich got wind of the fragility and realised we were there for the taking.

If we could actually pass to our own players, we possibly could have been 2 up within 15 mins.

[mykeyb]

Bacuna Chester Baker Amavi

Tishbola   Jedi   Bacuna/Gardner

              Grealish

     Kodjia    McCormack

Give us somekind of foothold in midfield

[philgetaway]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

I must admit that one of the puzzles to me has been the decisions that have ensured Adomah and Gestede avoid each other ; old fashioned I may be but one crossing the ball and the other heading it with either McCormack or Kodj lurking is surely worth at least a go ?

Couldn't agree more.  Gestede often comes on for Admomah!  Crazy. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

I think SB just got it wrong. my concern is that over the last few games, its been heading that way.

I could suffer Hutton if we dominate possesion, so to do that we need numbers in MF

Bacuna Jedi Tish & Amavi

We need outlets, RW/LW

RW Adomah 

LW Amavi  (thats a lot of ground to cover

Grealish or McC need to pull the strings

Kodjia through the middle

so Its either

4-3-2-1 (Amavi owning the left)

or

4-1-4-1

Bacuna Chester Baker Amavi

Jedi

Adomah Tish Grealish ?

Kodjia

I think Jedi would actually make a brilliant sweeper!

 

With Chester and Baker behind him "they shall not pass".

Put Tish and/or Bacuna in front of him and we have two players capable of defense and attack back to back.

Let the rest of the team attack.