Chindie Posted December 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 16, 2016 20 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Saw the Bradford game. That wasn't as bad. We at least had a few attempts and scored. I was in the Holte End. It was **** dreadful. Bruce will need to go some to match that. Tuesday didn't even touch it for sheer miserable aimlessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Liverpool 6-0 at home, Chelsea 8-0 away, Southampton 6-1 away, Bradford, the FA Cup final . . . Norwich was bad but it'd be nowhere near my top ten. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Woodytom said: Obviously sometimes when new managers come into a club there is a sudden change in fortune. Not always, in fact it's probably no more than not... as your point suggests. What I was suggesting is that Bruce happened to have a change in fortune and having seen the last few performances, I'm starting to think that it was very much just due to a change in approach/new face rather than some sustained difference. I wasn't over the moon with bruce's appointment but the guy (as a guy) has grown on me. I think he is probably the right man for a team wanting to challenge for promotion If the environment is correct. I don't fwiw, believe he is a man that can overturn this rotten environment that the club has endured for a number of years that has slowly started to creep back into performances. His choice to include gabby for example just proves that he is in no way shape or form going to change the attitude of this club quickly. I think he is very much the manager to arrest our fortunes. what I think he has done is come in, ignored all the negatives and thought I will see it for myself.....no managerial job in any industry can be managed successfully by listening to others...why, because we all have different personalities....He had to see it for himself. He got an initial reaction, so he had to go with the flow. He has now seen the dark side and even came out and said he can now see why he was appointed.He has witnessed it for himself. some players seriously need to be removed.....they are a danger to any thought of progress. it will take him time.....not sure it will take much money......but sure it will take different types than we have been used to. He will fix it.....but not as quick as we think he will. Edited December 16, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 15 minutes ago, TRO said: I think he is very much the manager to arrest our fortunes. what I think he has done is come in, ignored all the negatives and thought I will see it for myself.....no managerial job in any industry can be managed successfully by listening to others...why, because we all have different personalities....He had to see it for himself. He got an initial reaction, so he had to go with the flow. He has now seen the dark side and even came out and said he can now see why he was appointed.He has witnessed it for himself. some players seriously need to be removed.....they are a danger to any thought of progress. it will take him time.....not sure it will take much money......but sure it will take different types than we have been used to. He will fix it.....but not as quick as we think he will. I wouldn't be quite so hasty yet to suggest there is a major fix that needs to be undertaken here. We have won 50% of our games under Bruce, lost just two of 10. Fought back from being behind to win games, kept pushing and pressing until the final whistle in games to help secure wins with late goals. Norwich was a huge disappointment where to pretty much a man we didn't show up. Three weeks previous though we played Brighton away and deserved to win after a very good performance so I think a little perspective is needed. As I said in a previous post the game on Sunday and the reaction Bruce gets will tell us a lot about our prospects going forward and how much work is needed. I am still hopeful that 3 or 4 additions can see us kick on in the second half of the season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Bruce will get it right imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Chindie said: I was in the Holte End. It was **** dreadful. Bruce will need to go some to match that. Tuesday didn't even touch it for sheer miserable aimlessness. I was in the holte end. It was dreadful you're right. But we did at times look like scoring. In fact we did. The result was more devestating given the event but the performance was not as bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I wouldn't be quite so hasty yet to suggest there is a major fix that needs to be undertaken here. We have won 50% of our games under Bruce, lost just two of 10. Fought back from being behind to win games, kept pushing and pressing until the final whistle in games to help secure wins with late goals. Norwich was a huge disappointment where to pretty much a man we didn't show up. Three weeks previous though we played Brighton away and deserved to win after a very good performance so I think a little perspective is needed. As I said in a previous post the game on Sunday and the reaction Bruce gets will tell us a lot about our prospects going forward and how much work is needed. I am still hopeful that 3 or 4 additions can see us kick on in the second half of the season. I understand all of that Mark and I really do not want to over react. but please let me explain a concern......and I have said this in an earlier post, but I do believe it. everyone has highs and lows....but when the lows go too low it can be a tell tale to a deep rooted problem. I personally think the Norwich game went too low and if you sat and watched with me I could have explained in detail.....not permutations or selections ,individual players failure to compete....I just cannot ignore it, sorry. some may think I am wrong....so be it.....its just my opinion and I am confident what I saw will take us nowhere.....I think SB seen it too and looked shocked. I don't necessarily think new additions will fix us, because we have had so many over the years that haven't......we need the right ones. The fact we did so well against Brighton ( the highs) shows the degree of fluctuation this team is capable of. in my view it's more to do with physicality, drive, determination, character, will, attitude.............than talent. We have talent, I have no doubt.......its the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TRO said: I understand all of that Mark and I really do not want to over react. but please let me explain a concern......and I have said this in an earlier post, but I do believe it. everyone has highs and lows....but when the lows go too low it can be a tell tale to a deep rooted problem. I personally think the Norwich game went too low and if you sat and watched with me I could have explained in detail.....not permutations or selections ,individual players failure to compete....I just cannot ignore it, sorry. some may think I am wrong....so be it.....its just my opinion and I am confident what I saw will take us nowhere.....I think SB seen it too and looked shocked. I don't necessarily think new additions will fix us, because we have had so many over the years that haven't......we need the right ones. The fact we did so well against Brighton ( the highs) shows the degree of fluctuation this team is capable of. in my view it's more to do with physicality, drive, determination, character, will, attitude.............than talent. We have talent, I have no doubt.......its the other. TRO that was our worst performance under Bruce by a long way as it looked like we couldn't be bothered but that was one game in 10 where the players could be accused of not putting a shift in and a lack of desire. A number of other performances the quality served up hasn't been great but the team to a man has pushed until the full time whistle which has helped us to secure four late goals to win games. Therefore on the one hand you have one game under Bruce where you can accuse the players of not turning up and applying themselves in anything like the right way and on the other hand you can point to a number of games under Bruce where things haven't gone well in terms of things clicking and the level of performance but we have really battled and pushed until the final kick of the game and showed some character and mental strength. In fairness if it is just one game in ten that we don't show up that wouldn't be a bad thing as you'd be looking at 4 or 5 games over a season. The trouble is that due to having to play catch up we can't afford any games where we don't put a shift in so performances such as Tuesday are magnified as the pressure is on for us to apply ourselves in every game if we are to challenge for promotion which I think is still very much the aim. Let's see what Sunday brings and if Tuesday was a blip in terms of effort and application under Bruce. Edited December 16, 2016 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) 44 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: TRO that was our worst performance under Bruce by a long way as it looked like we couldn't be bothered but that was one game in 10 where the players could be accused of not putting a shift in and a lack of desire. A number of other performances the quality serve up hasn't been great but the team to a man has pushed until the full time whistle which has helped us to secure four late goals to win games. Therefore on the one hand you have one game under Bruce where you can accuse the players of not turning up and applying themselves in anything like the right way and on the other hand you can point to a number of games under Bruce where things haven't gone well in terms of things clicking and the level of performance but we have really battled and pushed until the final kick of the game and showed some character and mental strength. In fairness if it is just one game in ten that we don't show up that wouldn't be a bad thing as you'd be looking at 4 or 5 games over a season. The trouble is that due to having to play catch up we can't afford any games where we don't put a shift in so performances such as Tuesday are magnified as the pressure is on for us to apply ourselves in every game if we are to challenge for promotion which I think is still very much the aim. Let's see what Sunday brings and if Tuesday was a blip in terms of effort and application under Bruce. Lets see what Sunday brings and if Tuesday was a blip in terms of effort and application under Bruce. As always Mark, whether I agree with you or not.....I enjoy your comments immensely and more often than not, do agree with you.. i will obviously take your advice and wait until Sunday and I would also suspect there will be a change in personel.....for my thoughts let's hope that is attitude too. Please forgive my view of the game, but I was brought up with Andy Gray being a close personal friend for over 2 years and privilege of watching the Great Ron Saunders teams from very close quarters, so when I see a poor excuse for a display like I seen on Tuesday.....from what I still believe will prove to be a good manager for us.....I was understandably angry. I accept the points haul as commendable, but I would still have reservations on some players attitude towards comittment or basic bravery. I also think there is also a distinct distinction between putting in a shift and winning your physical duels.....I have seen them that run for fun and little all else and others conversely that challenge their opposite number physically and endeavour to get in to the game in an effort to impose their skill on the opposition. In my humble opinion, its this gap between highs and lows in performance that can be indicative of how good you really are. The good ones have lows that are not very low. Edited December 16, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) @TRO I think let's see how it plays out. I'd imagine the players would have felt Bruce's wrath for the first time since he arrived so it will be interesting to see what effect that now has alongside him bringing a few players in who have been waiting for a chance. I think we also need to be careful here that we aren't letting the hangover from previous seasons impact on this one in terms of how we are judging the squad. We are not half way through the season after a massive overhaul in players over the summer and two managers in a short space of time one of which who didn't seem to have a clue.The fact it hasn't clicked yet and that there are peaks and troughs in terms of performance levels perhaps shouldn't be such a surprise. I sound like a broken record but lets see what the reaction is on Sunday. Hopefully it will be one which suggests we can muddle through until January by applying ourselves in the right manner, fill a couple of gaping holes in the squad in the window and then really kick on. Edited December 16, 2016 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: @TRO I think let's see how it plays out. I'd imagine the players would have felt Bruce's wrath for the first time since he arrived so it will be interesting to see what effect that now has alongside him bringing a few players in who have been waiting for a chance. I think we also need to be careful here that we aren't letting the hangover from previous seasons impact on this one in terms of how we are judging the squad. We are not half way through the season after a massive overhaul in players over the summer and two managers in a short space of time one of which who didn't seem to have a clue.The fact it hasn't clicked yet and that there are peaks and troughs in terms of performance levels perhaps shouldn't be such a surprise. I sound like a broken record but lets see what the reaction is on Sunday. Hopefully it will be one which suggests we can muddle through until January by applying ourselves in the right manner, fill a couple of gaping holes in the squad in the window and then really kick on. I can assure you Mark I am not letting the hangover effect my judgement, or even the score line more importantly. i am merely judging it on the one on one situation of our players duels that I had the displeasure to witness.....not to mention some of them " missing in action" However, enough said and I will look forward to a competitive approach from ALL the players that make the team. UTV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Think the next ten games will be crucial for us like SB said today pick up 20-22 pts in those games and we will be on track for playoffs think Bruce has done well and it has also been a tough run of fixtures ,2 derbies ,Leeds ,Brighton,Reading,and Norwich away ,we are heading in the right direction it will take time but we are getting there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 5 minutes ago, BigAl said: Think the next ten games will be crucial for us like SB said today pick up 20-22 pts in those games and we will be on track for playoffs think Bruce has done well and it has also been a tough run of fixtures ,2 derbies ,Leeds ,Brighton,Reading,and Norwich away ,we are heading in the right direction it will take time but we are getting there . I think he will get it right in good time......but he needed to see that debacle. I don't see that much changing until he can bring in the much needed attributes to strengthen us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 I am convinced that the next Villa manager will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 If he thinks Gabby is still a player I am very concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Relying on Kodjia to bail us out isn't going to work, lots to be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Has some absolute dog shit to work with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Performances have often been on the poor side but you can't argue with his record. Played 11, won 6, drawn 3, lost 2. By comparison, we won 1, drew 7 and lost 3 in RDM's 11 games. We're also now winning points in the final 10/15 minutes of games rather than losing the which I don't think can be overlooked. Edited December 18, 2016 by Mantis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Has some absolute dog shit to work with. Very true, and yet he still keeps getting results. We're still only six points from the play off places. There's no doubt that we'll have bad result or two long the way, but I think he's doing a fantastic job. January is hugely important, though, and he really has some work to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 One thing I will say is that he's rotated and still won the game. We have fresh legs going into the tough period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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