TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, peterms said: Just read the first few pages. Most unimpressed, most saying give him a chance, and a couple of quite prescient posts. I stamd by my earlier comment, that a lot of people have been holding their tongues despite rhinking he was the wrong appointment. perhaps i viewed the thread a few more pages in.....but clearly there was derogatory posts early on It was c page 70 when a eminent poster wrote...."The way we're looking at the moment, if he keeps us in the Championship this season he'll have worked miracles" It was c page 70 when he played his first game, so I think the early pages were just based on HIM and what he done elsewhere as opposed to what he had done for us....because we hadn't got to that point. Edited September 19, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 42 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Why though have you decided that, after 6 continuous years of these being major problems for the club, Bruce should suddenly be able to solve them all overnight? No-one would expect him to solve those things overnight. When he's had two windows and a large amount of money and eleven months, such an expectation becomes reasonable. If we had problems with poor playing style or uncommitted players four or five years ago, what bearing would that have on a very different squad and coaching team now? In what way can it influence what happens on the pitch this month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 54 minutes ago, AshVilla said: I'm sure should we lose tonight the following excuses will have already been prepared - it's a dead rubber, we need to focus on the league, rest a few players. Actually, I am ok with those excuses. I just want to see the youngsters playing with the enjoyable enthusiasm we witnessed against Wigan, no matter the result. If we win so much the better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 28 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: It's a free pass for Bruce tonight. He seems to get more free passes every game than most of our players make in 90 minutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, peterms said: No-one would expect him to solve those things overnight. When he's had two windows and a large amount of money and eleven months, such an expectation becomes reasonable. If we had problems with poor playing style or uncommitted players four or five years ago, what bearing would that have on a very different squad and coaching team now? In what way can it influence what happens on the pitch this month? we have had a playing style that has been debatable since Ron Atkinson had his first 18 months.....its nothing new and not exclusive to any one manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, AshVilla said: He seems to get more free passes every game than most of our players make in 90 minutes. He lost his league free passes after Brentford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: we have had a playing style that has been debatable since Ron Atkinson had his first 18 months.....its nothing new and not exclusive to any one manager? Can a manager change that with new players, coaching and tactics, or is it (presumably not) an immutable feature of the club? If it can be changed, what would seem a reasonable period of time, level of turnover of players and coaching staff, and money spent, before it becomes reasonable to expect improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 So now a few don't mind keeping Bruce even if we don't go up. Is this now the Steve Bruce charity? Did he win the lottery? He doesn't now need to meet club targets to keep getting millions of pounds to manage the club? Jesus. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, peterms said: Can a manager change that with new players, coaching and tactics, or is it (presumably not) an immutable feature of the club? If it can be changed, what would seem a reasonable period of time, level of turnover of players and coaching staff, and money spent, before it becomes reasonable to expect improvement? my point was to illustrate, its not easy. of course it can be changed, but with so many new players its inevitable it could take that bit longer I have no idea how long it takes....but equally ,I would be the first to agree that cannot go on unchecked ad infinitum. I look at Pepe and Jose and with untold resources usually have to wait until the second season to see their work click.....I am in no way comparing our guy with them, just the principle.....LVG couldn't make it so its very hard building, when you get someone like that struggle. You do need a bit of good fortune to go with all the necessary tangibles....Lets hope we get a bit. I also think, IF you like the guy to start with, the patience has a longer leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, DCJonah said: So now a few don't mind keeping Bruce even if we don't go up. Is this now the Steve Bruce charity? Did he win the lottery? He doesn't now need to meet club targets to keep getting millions of pounds to manage the club? Jesus. I don't know where that has been intimated on these boards? did he get millions of pounds this summer? must have missed it.....but maybe the millions we have spent earlier in his first window can still come to fruition. Edited September 19, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I don't know where that has been intimated on these boards? did he get millions of pounds this summer? must have missed it.....but maybe the millions we have spent earlier in his first window can still come to fruition. He didn't say anything about spending millions, he said about his pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, TRO said: I don't know where that has been intimated on these boards? did he get millions of pounds this summer? must have missed it.....but maybe the millions we have spent earlier in his first window can still come to fruition. He is paid a large amount of money. If he fails to meet targets then there's no way that should continue And he's had a lot of money to spend improving this club, even if he likes to suggest he hasn't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: He didn't say anything about spending millions, he said about his pay. I think you will find he said " and he has had a lot of money to spend" but he mentioned his pay too. correction apologies I interpreted it as millions of pounds to manager the club...meaning transfer funds Edited September 19, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you will find he said " Money Spent" Not in the post you quoted he didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you will find he said " and he has had a lot of money to spend" but he mentioned his pay too. correction Again, not in the post you quoted it didn't. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, TRO said: I look at Pepe and Jose and with untold resources usually have to wait until the second season to see their work click Yes, it can't be done overnight. What I saw from many of the posts was shock that at the start of this season, we seemed to be playing truly dreadful stuff and with players played out of position and with tactics which seemed oddly defensive. I really don't think people were expecting miracles, but we seemed to be going backwards. That doesn't look like bedding-in issues. More than that, it appeared to confirm many of the reservations people already had, and which had been commented on in his previous tenures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, TrentVilla said: Again, not in the post you quoted it didn't. I understand what you are saying now.....just posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, peterms said: Yes, it can't be done overnight. What I saw from many of the posts was shock that at the start of this season, we seemed to be playing truly dreadful stuff and with players played out of position and with tactics which seemed oddly defensive. I really don't think people were expecting miracles, but we seemed to be going backwards. That doesn't look like bedding-in issues. More than that, it appeared to confirm many of the reservations people already had, and which had been commented on in his previous tenures. I think many of the earlier reservations have not yet been dispelled, so yeah, I can see that. I am prepared to wait a bit longer, some are not. I think we can present a formidable 4-4-2 side now we have everyone back fit.... we will see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 10 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said: It's not the fact that fans who want him out are idiots, Old ground but. It seems to me that if you are a Brouter then you are not happy with things atm, this breeds frustration and eventually anger. If you are a Brinner, it appears to me that you are not all that happy either but you are patiently waiting for a change of fortunes and believe things will change. Now logic tells me that if "the waiting" is still the status quo after 11months, 2 windows and a preseason and we are still not hitting our target. How much longer does the club "wait" before a watershed? The "idiocy" label is aimed at those who have had enough and see no more reason to wait. That imho isnt fair as the aims are the same for both Brout/Brinners. Promotion. Is it fair to "victimize" because the one opinion (Brout) rocks somewhat the boat? 10 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said: thats not what I'm saying. It's the over the top reaction to everything that is idiotic. I'm afraid (at least in my case) the passion for the club over-rides the fact of the stagnation of the club. 10 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said: Yes if you want him out...fair enough, but name calling, hoping the team lose etc is idiotic. If he's had insults hurled at him, which I imagine is highly likely, then he is well within his rights to say something back. theres a simple answer to this, @SB do a good job -> fans happy do a bad job -> fans not happy Instead of "Hyseria-izing" about it, spend the energy getting the job done. 10 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said: I try and look at the big picture. We've had about 40 new players arrive at vp in a little over 2 years, we have 2 players who has been here through it all...gabby and hutton!! Thats hardly much to build on is it? Time is what is needed not more change. Yes some of the football has been awful, but bruce has the experience to get us up the league. To compare us to other clubs and managers is unrealistic. Every situation is different. We have been awful year after year for 6 years, add to that the mismanagement of everything off the pitch, you then have a huge mess to sort out. If it took 6 years to get us into that mess then its not going to be turned around in 12 months. Irrespective of all the data anyone could lay on the table for pro/con whatever. The over-riding FACT IS. Not getting promoted this season makes promotion increasingly more difficult for EVERY FOLLOWING season we are down here. No matter how anyone wishes to dress it all up Bruce MUST get us up this year. If it isnt happening HE MUST go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Old ground but. It seems to me that if you are a Brouter then you are not happy with things atm, this breeds frustration and eventually anger. If you are a Brinner, it appears to me that you are not all that happy either but you are patiently waiting for a change of fortunes and believe things will change. Now logic tells me that if "the waiting" is still the status quo after 11months, 2 windows and a preseason and we are still not hitting our target. How much longer does the club "wait" before a watershed? The "idiocy" label is aimed at those who have had enough and see no more reason to wait. That imho isnt fair as the aims are the same for both Brout/Brinners. Promotion. Is it fair to "victimize" because the one opinion (Brout) rocks somewhat the boat? I'm afraid (at least in my case) the passion for the club over-rides the fact of the stagnation of the club. theres a simple answer to this, @SB do a good job -> fans happy do a bad job -> fans not happy Instead of "Hyseria-izing" about it, spend the energy getting the job done. Irrespective of all the data anyone could lay on the table for pro/con whatever. The over-riding FACT IS. Not getting promoted this season makes promotion increasingly more difficult for EVERY FOLLOWING season we are down here. No matter how anyone wishes to dress it all up Bruce MUST get us up this year. If it isnt happening HE MUST go No opinion is wrong GH......and if we all agreed it might be boring. but predictions/speculation on either side hold no bounds......and counts for little. stick or twist? Edited September 19, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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