bannedfromHandV Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: I hope you are wrong. I cannot see any case for keeping him, no matter which division we are in. What, just...........what?! Fine to say you think he's underachieved or you don't think he's the man to take us forward but to not see "any case for keeping him", well you must have had your head buried in the sand for the past 18 months. For me, it's comments like this that just completely undermine any debate for sacking him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: What, just...........what?! Fine to say you think he's underachieved or you don't think he's the man to take us forward but to not see "any case for keeping him", well you must have had your head buried in the sand for the past 18 months. For me, it's comments like this that just completely undermine any debate for sacking him. Madness isn't it some of the comments on here, the past 18 months have probably seen the most improvement of our team since MON was here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I disagree about the football. Again I think that is vastly exaggerated. I think relative to the league we're in, our football is pretty good. But I agree with the overall assessment. I don't think he'd get us up next season if he stays. But I don't think Xia, Wyness etc will agree. I do agree with both assertions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: What, just...........what?! Fine to say you think he's underachieved or you don't think he's the man to take us forward but to not see "any case for keeping him", well you must have had your head buried in the sand for the past 18 months. For me, it's comments like this that just completely undermine any debate for sacking him. Are you just trying to stop any debate on the subject, for I am afraid it does not work that way? And I say i do not see any case for keeping him based on the last 18 months. You clearly think, based on the last 18 months, that he can improve the team sufficiently to either get us promoted or keep us in the Prem, whichever it is to be. You may be correct, but my opinion is just as valid as yours, and I think your last sentence is simply over the top and does nothing to further any discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, holteend1982 said: Madness isn't it some of the comments on here, the past 18 months have probably seen the most improvement of our team since MON was here. I am not denying the improvement, I just do not think it justifies possibly wasting another season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 This thread, much like our hopes of getting promoted, is positively Sisyphean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: This thread, much like our hopes of getting promoted, is positively Sisyphean. Are you suggesting we are never going to get promoted? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: Are you just trying to stop any debate on the subject, for I am afraid it does not work that way? And I say i do not see any case for keeping him based on the last 18 months. You clearly think, based on the last 18 months, that he can improve the team sufficiently to either get us promoted or keep us in the Prem, whichever it is to be. You may be correct, but my opinion is just as valid as yours, and I think your last sentence is simply over the top and does nothing to further any discussion. Sorry but I think it's valid. As I said, it's one thing to believe he's underachieved, I agree that there is a basis to that belief. To say that theres no case for keeping him is to completely trivialise all the good work he's done. Maybe it's a matter of terminology, maybe not, either way I can't idly stand back and read stuff like that without offering some form of counter-comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Sorry but I think it's valid. As I said, it's one thing to believe he's underachieved, I agree that there is a basis to that belief. To say that theres no case for keeping him is to completely trivialise all the good work he's done. Maybe it's a matter of terminology, maybe not, either way I can't idly stand back and read stuff like that without offering some form of counter-comment. But surely you would acknowledge that Bruce's remit for this season is promotion? Which hopefully will yet be achieved - However if not then you must assume that Bruce has not met the clubs expectations and therefore will most likely pay the price with his job? Tbh I think this would be justified imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 9 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: I am not denying the improvement, I just do not think it justifies possibly wasting another season. So the improvement you acknowledge was a “waste”? I think the plot is being lost here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So the improvement you acknowledge was a “waste”? I think the plot is being lost here. The improvement will mean nothing if we don’t go up. In that respect it will be a waste of a season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The improvement will mean nothing if we don’t go up. In that respect it will be a waste of a season. So I detect a difference between your position and that of @AntrimBlack, who seems to be arguing even if we get promoted the season would have been wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 18 hours ago, holteend1982 said: Madness isn't it some of the comments on here, the past 18 months have probably seen the most improvement of our team since MON was here. I should hope so, considering all the money and resources the club as had at hand. Let's just hope we can achieve what the manager was brought here to do, and that is to get us back to where this great club should be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 8 hours ago, briny_ear said: So the improvement you acknowledge was a “waste”? I think the plot is being lost here. No. What I think he's saying, is if the improvement , however big or small that Improvement is, it does not guarantee, in his opinion, that the manager can add to that improvement. Should we be promoted or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 My only concern is the inconsistency at key points of the season. If we don't get promoted there will need to be questions on the manager's performance vs. targets, which I'm sure there will be. However, there is an argument to suggest that a 2nd full season could see things improve again. Is it really a good thing for us keep changing manager each season? Unless there is someone out there that will drive a significant improvement in performance I'm not so sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 The only question will be whether you think a new figure, with new plans, is more or less likely to get another half a dozen points than Bruce is. Punishment or otherwise for this season, the money spent, and everything else is utterly irrelevant. And there are decent arguments either way. Neither pro nor anti shoukd dispute that. For me, I think it’d be a huge mistake to get rid of him. Huge. But it won’t come up, since we will beat Boro 3-2 tomorrow and 2-1 next week, and beat Derby 3-1 in the Final. 100% totally non speculative certainty. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 17 hours ago, Dave J said: But surely you would acknowledge that Bruce's remit for this season is promotion? Which hopefully will yet be achieved - However if not then you must assume that Bruce has not met the clubs expectations and therefore will most likely pay the price with his job? Tbh I think this would be justified imo Dave, read what I wrote. I quite clearly said there is basis for a discussion around whether or not he's underachieved. But, to dismiss everything he has done with comments like 'no case for keeping him', is completely wrong. For the record, the case to keep him: Inherited a team in 22nd place, as of writing in 4th place Demonstrable track record of winning promotion from this division Best season we've had in many years in terms of points gained, games won and goals scored Has the ability and network to bring in players like Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban etc Has worked to a relatively tight budget, particularly in the past 12 months Has installed an excellent team spirit (seemingly so, at least) We actually win games screened live on TV now Unbeaten vs the shite Shown immense professionalism through truly difficult personal circumstances Given time I'm sure I/others could think of more. Sadly, there are those among us who see 'no case for keeping him on'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 10/05/2018 at 07:43, sexbelowsound said: If we make it there will this discussion still be taking place on the eve of the Playoff final? It seems crazy to me at this stage of the season that we're discussing whether the manager should stay or go. Just got that Clash tune running through my mind . " This Indecision's killing me ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Dave, read what I wrote. I quite clearly said there is basis for a discussion around whether or not he's underachieved. But, to dismiss everything he has done with comments like 'no case for keeping him', is completely wrong. For the record, the case to keep him: Inherited a team in 22nd place, as of writing in 4th place Demonstrable track record of winning promotion from this division Best season we've had in many years in terms of points gained, games won and goals scored Has the ability and network to bring in players like Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban etc Has worked to a relatively tight budget, particularly in the past 12 months Has installed an excellent team spirit (seemingly so, at least) We actually win games screened live on TV now Unbeaten vs the shite Shown immense professionalism through truly difficult personal circumstances Given time I'm sure I/others could think of more. Sadly, there are those among us who see 'no case for keeping him on'. Let me reply to your observations: Inherited a team in 22nd place, as of writing in 4th place - But with one of, if not the, largest payrolls and transfer funds in the division. Should be better than 4th Demonstrable track record of winning promotion from this division - Really, are we still playing that old tune. It all comes down to the next two weeks. Best season we've had in many years in terms of points gained, games won and goals scored - We are in the Championship with one of the most expensive squads every built for this division. Whoop De Du Has the ability and network to bring in players like Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban etc - No, Money does that Has worked to a relatively tight budget, particularly in the past 12 months - No he hasn't, plus he's spent a lot of money on average ageing players Has installed an excellent team spirit (seemingly so, at least) - Don't care about team spirit. I want promotion. We actually win games screened live on TV now - I can't believe you even included this one Unbeaten vs the shite - A good one Shown immense professionalism through truly difficult personal circumstances - Tough times, responded well. However, continually has a go at the fans when we pass judgement on losses or performances. Where's his immense professionalism then? The next two to three games will define his tenure at Aston Villa. If we don't go up he has to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, USA_Villa said: Let me reply to your observations: Inherited a team in 22nd place, as of writing in 4th place - But with one of, if not the, largest payrolls and transfer funds in the division. Should be better than 4th Demonstrable track record of winning promotion from this division - Really, are we still playing that old tune. It all comes down to the next two weeks. Best season we've had in many years in terms of points gained, games won and goals scored - We are in the Championship with one of the most expensive squads every built for this division. Whoop De Du Has the ability and network to bring in players like Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban etc - No, Money does that Has worked to a relatively tight budget, particularly in the past 12 months - No he hasn't, plus he's spent a lot of money on average ageing players Has installed an excellent team spirit (seemingly so, at least) - Don't care about team spirit. I want promotion. We actually win games screened live on TV now - I can't believe you even included this one Unbeaten vs the shite - A good one Shown immense professionalism through truly difficult personal circumstances - Tough times, responded well. However, continually has a go at the fans when we pass judgement on losses or performances. Where's his immense professionalism then? The next two to three games will define his tenure at Aston Villa. If we don't go up he has to go. predictable and begrudging......poor response IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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