TRO Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Dont let facts get in the way though The thing is GH when you never have a moment when you can give any credit, it becomes less believeable. when you analyse the whole thing, you do make some good points and I for one accept some of them. the fact that you seem to struggle for some reason to find anthing positive to say particularly about SB....i think weakens your arguement as opposed to strenghtening it. but hey ho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, TRO said: The thing is GH when you never have a moment when you can give any credit, it becomes less believeable. when you analyse the whole thing, you do make some good points and I for one accept some of them. the fact that you seem to struggle for some reason to find anthing positive to say particularly about SB....i think weakens your arguement as opposed to strenghtening it. I've said this multiple times. It dilutes the actual argument and makes the posts hard to take seriously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: And even then, it's not always great. Many a time I've settled down on the sofa for a mouth-watering 'Super Sunday' match, an Arsenal vs Chelsea or something and it's turned out to be a drab 0-0 draw. Football is unpredictable, it's why this expected goals shit is nonsense, if there was a formula out there it would have been exploited by now and the bookies would be out of business, as it is, they're thriving, because of the unpredictable nature of sport, football particularly it would seem. The bold is true, but xG isn't a forecast / prediction, it's an analysis of what happened in games compared to 1000s of other games. All our graph shows is that for the season to date we should have gained more points given the chances we've created vs each team. ie we should have converted more of those chances. Conversely, Derby have gained more point than would be expected from the chances they've created in those matches. The only forecast you can make from that is that we are underperforming and may get better as the graphs get closer over a longer sample period and that Derby may get worse - but equally, both sides may continue to perform in the same way. xG is derived from averages and to get those there will always be teams above and below average IYSWIM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 29 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Dont let facts get in the way though Whilst I agree the performances are not to the standard we should be expecting this season, the facts are that we are winning more games than we have done for a number of years... So far in the league this season we have won 12 games, 5 more wins will take us to more wins than we did last season. A target that should be very much achievable at this stage of the season. Granted you play 6 extra games a season in this league but that would only be 3 wins at the most based on averages from our recent seasons. 2017/18 - 12 wins (20 games to play) 2016/17 - 16 wins 2015/16 - 3 wins 2014/15 - 10 wins 2013/14 - 10 wins 2012/13 - 10 wins 2011/12 - 7 wins 2010/11 - 12 wins 2009/10 - 17 wins I think this also show's just how poor we have been since 2009/10 as a football club! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, wilko154 said: Whilst I agree the performances are not to the standard we should be expecting this season, the facts are that we are winning more games than we have done for a number of years... So far in the league this season we have won 12 games, 5 more wins will take us to more wins than we did last season. A target that should be very much achievable at this stage of the season. Granted you play 6 extra games a season in this league but that would only be 3 wins at the most based on averages from our recent seasons. 2017/18 - 12 wins (20 games to play) 2016/17 - 16 wins 2015/16 - 3 wins 2014/15 - 10 wins 2013/14 - 10 wins 2012/13 - 10 wins 2011/12 - 7 wins 2010/11 - 12 wins 2009/10 - 17 wins I think this also show's just how poor we have been since 2009/10 as a football club! I think your final line is a fair comment.....but do we really appreciate, how bad we have been? 2015/16.....was much, much more than a bad season.....it was a club in crisis.The last 8 years, you just couldn't write the script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I think your final line is a fair comment.....but do we really appreciate, how bad we have been? 2015/16.....was much, much more than a bad season.....it was a club in crisis.The last 8 years, you just couldn't write the script. Exactly... 28 Feb 2010, Manchester United in the Carling Cup Final at Wembley... if you had said to me that day 'this club is now going to fall off the rails for the next 8 years' I would have laughed in your face 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted January 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 31/12/2017 at 11:07, vreitti said: So you're a better fan then, good for you. I've made up my opinion based on the last 15 months, where I've not seen one bit of progress made with Bruce at the helm. I want him gone ASAP, and the only thing that could change that is if he somehow altered his approach and got us playing anything resembling football again. IMO that'll not happen, based upon what I've seen. You don't have to share my opinion. Makes no difference to me, but suggesting I'm a lesser fan for taking a different stance than you do, is frankly pathetic. i dont think that he meant anyone is a lesser fan for having a different opinion - i'm also a brouter. but i would never hope, let alone put money on viĺla losing. If my opinion of bruce is correct, results will seal his fate. if my opinion is wrong and we get proted then fantastic! Seems like a win-win for me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 48 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Who said you're not allowed to say it? Nobody has said we DON'T hoof it. What people have said is that we don't hoof it anywhere near as much as posters like you make out that we do. you didnt get the sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 37 minutes ago, TRO said: The thing is GH when you never have a moment when you can give any credit, it becomes less believeable. when you analyse the whole thing, you do make some good points and I for one accept some of them. the fact that you seem to struggle for some reason to find anthing positive to say particularly about SB....i think weakens your arguement as opposed to strenghtening it. but hey ho. And your arguements are strong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted January 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 31/12/2017 at 11:02, Genie said: It makes no difference to be fair, win lose or draw it’s the same from the Bruce out camp. When he loses he’s an idiot. When he draws he’s and idiot. When he wins he’s lucky. this is a very unfair generalisation. as a brouter i have never called a bruce victory 'lucky'. i have said our winning streak was unsustainable given our style of play - and i think few would disagree with that in either camp. i feel a more progressive manager could get more out of the players we have (as i dont think the players we have suit how we play). i hope to god bruce proves me wrong i really do but the evidence of his tenure to date suggests otherwise. either way i will celebrate when we win be annoyed when we draw and downright inconsolable when we lose - such is the fate of any football fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: And your arguements are strong? Thats not for me to say, obviously, i think they are. but, i do see elements of the counter argument too.....and while i do not agree in the main....I don't dismiss out of hand what is being said. some of the comments you make about the football is right.....I'm not afraid to say that.....but where we differ is where the fault lies, you think 100% lies with SB and I don't. Edited January 5, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, TRO said: Thats not for me to say, obviously, i think they are. but, i do see elements of the counter argument too.....and while i do not agree in the main....I don't dismiss out of hand what is being said. some of the comments you make about the football is right.....I'm not afraid to say that. are you Brin, Brout or Brence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I was thinking the other day, when was the last time we had a manager that went onto better things at club level? Would be nice to have a manager on the way up, rather than on the way down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, carewjust4u said: I was thinking the other day, when was the last time we had a manager that went onto better things at club level? Would be nice to have a manager on the way up, rather than on the way down. I feel confident in saying in my memory this has never happened, players have gone on to do better but I don’t ever recall a manager going on to do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, carewjust4u said: I was thinking the other day, when was the last time we had a manager that went onto better things at club level? Would be nice to have a manager on the way up, rather than on the way down. Edit - just saw you stated @ club level Edited January 5, 2018 by bannedfromHandV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted January 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: Dont let facts get in the way though Lol. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: are you Brin, Brout or Brence? There are very few managers that are safe.....even Pepe & Jose have had moments of doubters. results being what they are, can turn any fans head, if that is all we look at, particularly in the short to medium term. Most teams have the same ambitions, same objectives, same targets, same problems. Its so very easy to get rid of managers, but lumping all the factors they are responsible for and calling them "fault".... its their fault, is not strictly true. fault and responsibility is different and should be treated so. The one thing none of us know, is how long do these things take to turn round a broken club. If you go back over this years posts they vary from result to result on what folk think of Bruce......That is not the way to properly evaluate his performance.He oversee's many staff his job is a longer haul.....it takes time for him to get all his staff singing off the same hymn sheet.....its perhaps time we have'nt really got, but thats our problem, not necessarily his. I just think there is far more to be gained supporting him, until the majority of folk attached to AVFC think its doing more harm than good. ps just remember it can be argued some managers should never have been sacked and some administrations will admit that, but don't know what else to do to get a player/fan reaction. so BRIN Edited January 5, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Fwiw and let's be fair that myself and @Grasshopper being the avid Bruce lovers that we are, the manager equally never done himself any favours and warranted some of the critism that came his way. Yes at times it may look ott in some of the posted reactions but the encouraging factors moving forward are that we should soon have a full squad again, the appointment of Steve Agnew is also a positive too and he has set the marker now of what we all knew this team was capable of doing. If Bruce can now sustain this going forward with some decent football to go with then for me that is the best thing that can be done across all levels. Onwards and upwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Taxahunter said: Its not completely true, we have won 12 in the league and played 14 where we havent won, so actually we have won less often than not. True but that is still respectable albeit I would expect better and I think we will be better come the second part of the season. With our key players back, 1 or 2 signings and the shackles off (I mean in terms of formation) then we should go on a decent run. I know people have said that Bruce hasn't put the shackles on us but I have now heard 2 different players (Hogan and Hourihane) mention how we have started playing a different style. Hourihane recently mentioned how he had adapt his game as we went from 4-3-3 to 4-4-1-1 and he had to learn to fight off his instinct to get forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: you didnt get the sarcasm No I didn't. There's no sarcasm in your post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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