Next Villa Manager

[meme]

7 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Still Steve Bruce for me. I had no idea who Wagner is until 48 hours ago. 

You'd pick Randy Lerner over Dr Tone, just because you knew who the former was before the takeover?

Edited October 4, 2016 by meme

[Keyblade]

56 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

This is Huddersfields highest scoring XI according to the marks given by Whoscored.  The ones in yellow are Wagner's signings from this summer along with how much they cost. Just shows that putting together an almost completely new side, getting them to gel together and play well can be done... not to mention how much cheaper he did it.

 

That is very impressive. It's almost like he knows what he's doing.

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

Philosophy is there or thereabouts a fancy word for system.  Our players can defend, pass and score.  It only looks as though they can't, because they've been in a team that lacks a philoso system.  Which goes back to wanting a manager that has a clue.  Put those players into a balanced functional side and I think we'd be pleasantly surprised, when everyone knows their job and isn't being pulled left, right and centre to cover for someone who has gone AWOL.  Round pegs in round holes doesn't just mean playing a striker up front.  It means the whole thing making sense all of the time.

I agree that when some people say philosophy they actually mean system but they really aren't the same thing.

A manager can have an underlying philosophy but adapt their system depending on factors such as opposition, the nature of the game or the players available.

Things like zonal or man to man marking is also about systems it's not philosophy. 

A managers philosophy underlines whatever system a manager is using at any given time. And if it's a genuine one should be evident at all levels of the club.

In reality few managers really have a genuine philosophy, the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino do but beyond that in the PL I'm struggling. Swansea and Southampton have one as clubs perhaps and they employ managers to fit them or try to do so.

It could be argued, fairly I think, that Bruce doesn't really have a philosophy in the same way as Wagner.

So I do think there is more to it than just picking a balanced side although countless Villa managers struggle with just that basic.

I can kind of see both points of view and I'm kind of caught between the two myself. On the one hand we just need someone to come in, get the basics right and set the team up right. On the other it's short term, limited and will only take us so far.

On balance I think I'm more in the camp of wanting a manager with a philosophy rather than just a system. In our present state that looks like a choice between Bruce and Wagner.

Previous I said I'd go for Bruce largely through the desire to just see us win a game or two which you have to think he would achieve fairly effortlessly.

But the more I think about it the more I think we desperately need so much more than that at all levels of the club. We need to brake the cycle of rinse and repeat hires of managers, of hiring managers without any real depth.

I know that's a gamble given where we are but I think it's one we need to take and take now otherwise we will be here again sooner than we would like.

Wagner might not be the second coming of Clough but there is much to be admired about the work he has done at Huddlesfield both on and off the pitch and I'd welcome us appointing a man of that ilk.

Its hard and it's dangerous but we need a manager on the up not on the way down or who has achieved their peak. 

We have to try and install some sort of stability, ethos and philosophy in the club that then translates through to the team and the system or systems they employ.

So so much is wrong at the club that while I think Bruce could fix the here and now it would to an extent be papering over the cracks.

We as football fans want instant gratification in the form of wins, what we need is those responsible for making this appointment to be more removed, more measured and have more lofty goals in mind.

Its the only way we will brake the cycle and steady decline of the club and its long long overdue.

[tinker]

My impression on Bruce is that he buys tried and tested players who are on the move from bigger teams, Davies, Huddlestone. I think Bruce could compete but don't think he would rebuild on a budget and have us stabilized in the Premier League without spending millions. Bruce getting the job would indicate a panic move.  

[IwishIwasalivein1982]

Just now, Keyblade said:

That is very impressive. It's almost like he knows what he's doing.

If he knew what he was doing he wouldn't be considering coming here

[Keyblade]

Just now, IwishIwasalivein1982 said:

If he knew what he was doing he wouldn't be considering coming here

Is he really? I can forgive a lapse in judgement or two  

[BOF]

Yep I agree @TrentVilla regarding systems and philosophies and my 'there or thereabouts' was my way of lazily implying that there are differences between them which I couldn't be arsed to go into I suppose the most succinct way I could put it is that a philosophy extends to things beyond the matchday, whereas a system is how the philosophy is implemented on matchday.  But I think most can get the nuanced difference

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

Yep I agree @TrentVilla regarding systems and philosophies and my 'there or thereabouts' was my way of lazily implying that there are differences between them which I couldn't be arsed to go into I suppose the most succinct way I could put it is that a philosophy extends to things beyond the matchday, whereas a system is how the philosophy is implemented on matchday.  But I think most can get the nuanced difference

For many they seem almost interchangeable terms, I know that isn't the case with you. Your post was more just a launch point into a frustrated ramble.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Sam Allardyce Appointed New Villa Manager

 

Quote

Sam Allardyce has been appointed manager of Aston Villa on a 5 year deal. The former England manager replaces Roberto Di Matteo following the Italian’s sacking after just 124 days in charge.

Allardyce admits that he has mixed feelings about the new challenge.

Comedown

“I’d be lying if I said Villa wasn’t a huge comedown from the England gig,” he told Soccer on Sunday. “It’s a humiliation, if I’m honest. Having to take the Villa job is every manager’s worst nightmare. But I’ve hit my rock bottom now. The only way from Villa Park is up. I can’t sink any lower — that’s for sure.”

“Some would say I deserve this,” added the former West Ham manager. “I got loose-lipped over a few pints of vino and lost the only job I ever wanted. Managing Aston Villa might be God’s way of punishing me, but it’s a cruel sentence. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.”

Grealish

According to Jack Grealish, Big Sam wasted no time in addressing the Villa squad after training today.

“The gaffer levelled with us,” the midfielder told Soccer on Sunday. “He said he doesn’t want to be here any more than we do, and that we’re all here because we’ve done something wrong. But it’s our job now to claw ourselves out of this West Midlands shit hole. Micah Richards tried to start a ‘slow clap’, but it fizzled out.”

“Then the gaffer broke down crying and sat down on the ground,” added Grealish. “He just kept saying ‘Stupid Sam, Stupid Sam’ over and over, and smacking his forehead with his fist. Agbonlahorsy tried to put an arm around him, but the gaffer just screamed ‘DON’T TOUCH ME WITH THOSE FILTHY VILLA PAWS’.”

Future

Allardyce insists that his stay at Villa Park will be short.

“I just hope one day people forget I managed Villa,” he told Soccer on Sunday. “I have grandkids. I don’t want them googling me when they’re older, seeing their grandad in the Villa dugout. That would break my heart.”

 

[Johnnyp]

39 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Buying players to fit a system and without blowing millions on them..............its a novel approach. I cannot see it catching on down Villa Park though.

That Chris Lowe looks class too. Signed him from kaiserslautern. Has a good eye seemingly does Wagner.

[stewiek2]

I remember speaking to a mate of mine (a nose) about Bruce a few years back and he said that Bruce is very good at taking another manager's group of players and getting the best out of them, but once he adds his own players to the squads he tends to fall short and hits a ceiling.

[stewiek2]

Regards Mancini, what helped his success at Inter was the Milan and Juve fixing scandal.

[dounavilla]

4 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Sam Allardyce Appointed New Villa Manager

 

 

Hilarious.

Actually I didn't read it.

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, stewiek2 said:

I remember speaking to a mate of mine (a nose) about Bruce a few years back and he said that Bruce is very good at taking another manager's group of players and getting the best out of them, but once he adds his own players to the squads he tends to fall short and hits a ceiling.

I agree with that summary although it's more accurate to say he struggles when trying to transform sides from being functional old school sides to more cultured sides.

[stewiek2]

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I agree with that summary although it's more accurate to say he struggles when trying to transform sides from being functional old school sides to more cultured sides.

Yeah I'd agree with that. Pulis found it hard to adjust the playing style at Stoke too.

[Midfielder]

On Sky Bet the list now shows 

 

Bruce 11/8

Smith 6/1

Steve Cotterrill 10/1

Wagner 10/1

Clarke 11/1

John Carver 12/1

Sam Allardyce 16/1

 

I've been sort of scanning the forum while at work, but as the day has gone on, Cotterill and Carver have moved up / on out of nowhere. The Birmingham Mail is saying we are to interview Cotterill? Is this BS interest possibly by bookies trying to earn a few bob? I mean, John Carver ???? Who would put money on him to the point the bookies have to shorten their odds? I dont fully understand how they determine the odds list but it looks like BS from afar.

Hands up who has been betting on John Carver. 

[stewiek2]

1 minute ago, Midfielder said:

Hands up who has been betting on John Carver. 

John Carver

Edited October 4, 2016 by stewiek2

[sidcowans21]

 

7 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

On Sky Bet the list now shows 

 

Bruce 11/8

Smith 6/1

Steve Cotterrill 10/1

Wagner 10/1

Clarke 11/1

John Carver 12/1

Sam Allardyce 16/1

 

I've been sort of scanning the forum while at work, but as the day has gone on, Cotterill and Carver have moved up / on out of nowhere. The Birmingham Mail is saying we are to interview Cotterill? Is this BS interest possibly by bookies trying to earn a few bob? I mean, John Carver ???? Who would put money on him to the point the bookies have to shorten their odds? I dont fully understand how they determine the odds list but it looks like BS from afar.

Hands up who has been betting on John Carver. 

Not sure where you saw that mate. Wagner 9/4 at Skybet.

Interesting Pearson is only 5/1 at Betfair, but 20's and 25/1 at all the others.

Edited October 4, 2016 by sidcowans21
mistake

[Villan_of_oz]

5 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

On Sky Bet the list now shows 

 

Bruce 11/8

Smith 6/1

Steve Cotterrill 10/1

Wagner 10/1

Clarke 11/1

John Carver 12/1

Sam Allardyce 16/1

 

I've been sort of scanning the forum while at work, but as the day has gone on, Cotterill and Carver have moved up / on out of nowhere. The Birmingham Mail is saying we are to interview Cotterill? Is this BS interest possibly by bookies trying to earn a few bob? I mean, John Carver ???? Who would put money on him to the point the bookies have to shorten their odds? I dont fully understand how they determine the odds list but it looks like BS from afar.

Hands up who has been betting on John Carver. 

Literally anyone on that list but him..... I'm astounded he has even been mentioned. Hire Carver and we will have to sack him boxing day!

Edited October 4, 2016 by Villan_of_oz

[markavfc40]

58 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

Wagner might not be the second coming of Clough but there is much to be admired about the work he has done at Huddlesfield both on and off the pitch and I'd welcome us appointing a man of that ilk.

 

 

I got to be honest I knew next to nothing about him until this last couple of weeks so I'd be genuinely interested to know what he has done off the pitch at Huddersfield over the last 11 months that is to be admired.

Looking at this from afar I see that he went into Huddersfield last November and they finished 19th. This season after signing 13 players they are top of the league after 11 games. That at this moment in time is very impressive especially integrating so many new players and getting them to click so quickly. My concern is that would we be looking at him so favourably, or looking at him at all, if Huddersfield had a couple of results that went the other way and they were now sitting a handful of places lower down the table.

Unless we judge him on managing a B team then his time as a manager is less than a season and his impressive spell of results only comes this season which is 11 games old.

I think I need some convincing, perhaps what he has done off the field, for me to see him as the man to come into a job where for the first time as a manager he will have big expectations and be under pressure to be successful and, if the last managers time is anything to go by, will be expected to get decent results quickly or face the sack. This would be a whole different ball game, and a huge step up in terms of expectation, and I am not sure if 11 months in charge of Huddersfield gives you enough experience to call on for the massive challenge he will face here.

Edited October 4, 2016 by markavfc40