Next Villa Manager

[Grasshopper]

5 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Or what, we sack him as well?  

Well it may sound stupid but yes.

Get a manager who does the job - no need to replace

Get a manager who struggles - replace

Where there is no guarantee - you need a plan B

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Well it may sound stupid but yes.

Get a manager who does the job - no need to replace

Get a manager who struggles - replace

Where there is no guarantee - you need a plan B

Let's just give every manager 1 game and, unless he wins it, we'll sack him.

[Gary Thomas]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Changing managers could be disastrous. You mean it could get worse than 1 win in 11.

Genuinely I am not being funny here but what disruption would be caused? We have no set formation/system. Nothing would be being ripped up in terms of what happens on the pitch and have to be started again as there is nothing in place which quite frankly is shocking. As I said a manager with a whole pre season, substantial funds and control over who he wants to keep you would expect would have a system he wants to play and then purchase/retain players to suit that system. All the evidence suggests Di Matteo didn’t.

By your logic we would never have sacked Lambert with 14 games of the season remaining as it would have caused too much disruption and gave us no chance of avoiding relegation. As it was we stayed up and got to an FA Cup final. In fairness no club would ever sack a manager during the season if they simply based it on the disruption it may cause.

For as long as Di Matteo remains here I will be hoping he turns it around. I am not though going to use wishful thinking and a fear things could get worse as a basis to keep him as quite frankly I don’t think with this squad it could get any worse than 1 win in 11 games. I will judge him by the here and now and what has gone before and based on that, at this moment in time, he would have to go for me.

 

I didn’t say it could get worse than 1 win in 11 – not at all. Those results do not tell the whole story about RDM anyway and this is where we will have to agree to disagree.  My view is we come very close to winning lots of games; we would have won Tuesday if we had took our chances, the same against Forest and so on.  For all his flaws I have watched us play some decent stuff and two defeats says we are hard to beat.  I still think/hope RDM could turn this around, and more importantly, I think he could do it quickly.  As I write this I still believe in my gut we could beat Preston, Brentford and Wolves. It is that belief, I suppose, and the fact we have been SO close on so many occasions, that makes me think RDM is close and 'could' start winning soon. My fear is we sack RDM and a new manager comes in with a “set system” and new way of doing things that the players have to learn and get used to; bearing in mind some have only been together for a few weeks. IF they do not win straight away, or quickly, we will lose our shot at promotion because that required 60% win ratio will go up even higher.  I hear what you are saying about how Sherwood turning things around quickly. We would be betting on that happening again because we just don’t have time for any transitional period.

[markavfc40]

54 minutes ago, bobzy said:

We could win 3 in the next 10 and still be worse off.  What happens if we bring a new manager in and he wins 1 game in his first 4?  Do we sack him then because we're not doing well enough?  Is the change criteria based on wins or losses or points or league position?  If RDM wins his next 2 games, does he suddenly become good enough again?

I would give any manager more than 4 games as that is being ridiculous. I get the argument that some think 11 games isn’t enough and that some would think 15, 20, 30 games isn’t enough.

Judging a manager is always fluid isn’t it and for as long as he remains here he has the opportunity to turn things around and change opinions so yes I am not pig headed enough to not change my opinion on a manager if results improve. Why would any supporter be.

I am only giving my opinion like others. He had a whole pre season. Had pretty much a free hand over who from what he inherited he wanted to retain and was backed massively for this level in terms of being able to bring players in. It is therefore disappointing to say the least that he had no set system in mind when he moulded the squad over the summer.

When predicting what will happen going forward you can only base that on the evidence you have currently and based on that, as things currently stand, I don’t see an upturn in results under Di Matteo. Others may see things differently but for me whilst results have flat lined performances have gone backwards so we have gone from poor results and good performances to poor results and performances.

After 11 games I would expect to see improvement but  for me we are going backwards.

Edited September 29, 2016 by markavfc40

[Tommo_b]

1 win in 11, could be read as 2 defeats in 11.

its not 10 defeats in 11, if it was then yes sack him, but 2 defeats in 11 is pretty good considering how we were losing every game last season. 

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I would give any manager more than 4 games as that is being ridiculous. I get the argument that some think 11 games isn’t enough and that some would think 15, 20, 30 games isn’t enough.

Judging a manager is always fluid isn’t it and for as long as he remains here he has the opportunity to turn things around and change opinions so yes I am not pig headed enough to not change my opinion on a manager if results improve. Why would any supporter be.

I am only giving my opinion like others. He had a whole pre season. Had pretty much a free hand over who from what he inherited he wanted to retain and was backed massively for this level in terms of being able to bring players. It is therefore disappointing to say the least that he had no set system in mind when he moulded the squad over the summer.

When predicting what will happen going forward you can only base that on the evidence you have currently and based on that, as things currently stand, I don’t see an upturn in results under Di Matteo. Others may see things differently but for me whilst results have flat lined performances have gone backwards so we have gone from poor results and good performances to poor results and performances.

After 11 games I would expect to see improvement but we for me we are going backwards.

But if the concerns are based on no set system and poor signings for the team (even though everyone seemingly liked the signings, in particular McCormack and Kodjia?) then surely any upturn in results still means he's not good enough - just that he got lucky?

[markavfc40]

31 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said:

I didn’t say it could get worse than 1 win in 11 – not at all. Those results do not tell the whole story about RDM anyway and this is where we will have to agree to disagree.  My view is we come very close to winning lots of games; we would have won Tuesday if we had took our chances, the same against Forest and so on.  For all his flaws I have watched us play some decent stuff and two defeats says we are hard to beat.  I still think/hope RDM could turn this around, and more importantly, I think he could do it quickly.  As I write this I still believe in my gut we could beat Preston, Brentford and Wolves. It is that belief, I suppose, and the fact we have been SO close on so many occasions, that makes me think RDM is close and 'could' start winning soon. My fear is we sack RDM and a new manager comes in with a “set system” and new way of doing things that the players have to learn and get used to; bearing in mind some have only been together for a few weeks. IF they do not win straight away, or quickly, we will lose our shot at promotion because that required 60% win ratio will go up even higher.  I hear what you are saying about how Sherwood turning things around quickly. We would be betting on that happening again because we just don’t have time for any transitional period.

Mate I agree we could have won more games this season and in fact with a bit better finishing/luck for the forwards we would have done. I look at the first six games and a draw was the least we deserved from many of those games. It is the last 4 games that worry me where for me a draw was the most/all we deserved.

RDM has lost his bottle. The line ups at times may suggest otherwise but we are going into games now sitting deep, playing on the back foot with a negative approach. It is no surprise to me that we concede in the last 10 minutes. Teams are always going to throw the kitchen sink at you if they are a goal down with 10 minutes to go. The way to counteract that is to either ensure you are more than a goal to the good by that stage or you make sure you are set up to counteract that inevitable push by the opposing side. Against Forest we went into the last 10 mins a goal up with one natural centre mid on the pitch and five forwards. Against Brentford we had two centre mids on the pitch, four forwards but were sitting deep trying to hang on for 45 minutes. Against Barnsley we again had two natural centre mids on the pitch in the last 5 minutes, bought Gestede on but left him isolated with no support if he did win the ball. We instead choose to sit deep with no outlet.

It isn’t bad luck that has led us to concede so many late goals for me it is bad management.

I hope RDM does turn things around and for as long as he remains here then that will remain the case. As things stand though we are going backwards and I don’t see an upturn in results under him.

Edited September 29, 2016 by markavfc40

[dn1982]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

But if the concerns are based on no set system and poor signings for the team (even though everyone seemingly liked the signings, in particular McCormack and Kodjia?) then surely any upturn in results still means he's not good enough - just that he got lucky?

My concerns over RDM are he seems swayed by pressure. Up until Brentford we'd been attacking teams with varying degrees of success. We went 1 nil up and suddenly sat deep and went defensive. The goal was always coming. We then changed system at Ipswich because we'd been conceding goals in the last 5 min totally disregarding we'd played well in the previous 85 in most games Brentford aside. Ipswich was an awful performance but he decided to do the same again at home to NUFC. We were the awful until he went back to a back 4. There's quite a few instances where his decision making has been found wanting from tactics to team selection and substitutions these are just the in game ones. We don't seem to gave a pattern of play but seeing as he hasn't had long I've given him leeway with that but he isn't showing any signs that he can improve us or make better decisions. He has 2 very experienced coaches. What do they contribute? A good manager knows his players knows his way of playing and knows how to deliver it. Does RDM? 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

The time has come for RDM to go.

I posted long ago that we needed 1 manager to come in and sort the mess out then a 2nd manager to kick us on (or Pearson as I believe he could have done both here)

I'd have sacked RDM 3/4 games ago, put Clarke in charge, and start looking knowing that a ) Clarke has managed before and b ) he knows the players we have.

Maybe he buys us enough time to see his own merits. 4pts every 2 games would keep us ticking over till a decision has to be made.

This England debarcle couldnt come at a better time for us.

For a start, Managers like Howe, Dyche, Hughton, Bruce and any other England hopefull will all be assessing their "better gig" urge.

The Telegraph scoop will mean any new manager appointment could be on the premiss that he/she :-) is "clean".

Now that the mess is sorted and we have some sorts of players capable of being good in this league, we should b-line for the immediate objective, Promotion.

So for me, in order of preference.

Howe

Dyche

Wharburton

Bruce

Hughton

McCarthy

Wagner

Smith

Rowett

Or monitor progress under Clarke. All the while he can keep up an average of 4 from 6pts (would give us 82pts) he'd be deserving of the job.

I think you can strike the first two and possibly three off that list sadly. We are not such a great gig these days for any manager. If anything we are a poison chalice best avoided and no way will any manager drop a division for us. Hell out of work managers seemingly want better too.

Having said that Bruce might take the job and is probably the best realistic option for us if RDM gets the bullet.

[jon_c]

30 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

1 win in 11, could be read as 2 defeats in 11.

its not 10 defeats in 11, if it was then yes sack him, but 2 defeats in 11 is pretty good considering how we were losing every game last season. 

I think 10 points out of 30 is the fairest way if looking at it.

Whether we should be expecting a better ratio or not is then objective. 

[Gary Thomas]

24 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Mate I agree we could have won more games this season and in fact with a bit better finishing/luck for the forwards we would have done. I look at the first six games and a draw was the least we deserved from many of those games. It is the last 4 games that worry me where for me a draw was the most/all we deserved.

RDM has lost his bottle. The line ups at times may suggest otherwise but we are going into games now sitting deep, playing on the back foot with a negative approach. It is no surprise to me that we concede in the last 10 minutes. Teams are always going to throw the kitchen sink at you if they are a goal down with 10 minutes to go. The way to counteract that is to either ensure you are more than a goal to the good by that stage or you make sure you are set up to counteract that inevitable push by the opposing side. Against Forest we went into the last 10 mins a goal up with one natural centre mid on the pitch and five forwards. Against Brentford we had two centre mids on the pitch, four forwards but were sitting deep trying to hang on for 45 minutes. Against Barnsley we again had two natural centre mids on the pitch in the last 5 minutes, bought Gestede on but left him isolated with no support if he did win the ball. We instead choose to sit deep with no outlet.

It isn’t bad luck that has led us to concede so many late goals for me it is bad management.

I hope RDM does turn things around and for as long as he remains here then that will remain the case. As things stand though we are going backwards and I don’t see an upturn in results under him.

 

 

Mark, I agree, especially the bit about the last 4 games and how we have been regressing to a more defensive negative approach. It doesn't work and it won't get us the 19-21 wins we need from here. He needs to go back to being on the front foot and attacking teams - then at least we have a chance because there are few that could match us in attack IMO. We need wins and nothing else will do at this stage.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[sidcowans21]

51 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

1 win in 11, could be read as 2 defeats in 11.

its not 10 defeats in 11, if it was then yes sack him, but 2 defeats in 11 is pretty good considering how we were losing every game last season. 

Geting sick of this argument. This is the Championship for gods sake, we have virtually a new team, so all this 'hangover from last season and low on confidence from last year' is rubbish. Before we kicked off this season, and all the money we had spent, would you really have been happy if someone had predicted all these draws?

Like someone said the other day, Di Matteo sets us up as if we have just been promoted from League One. We should be going for the kill in these games, not sitting back. Matteo has known for a few weeks that sitting back after we have scored doesnt work, but he repeatedly does it every week. I dont see that as progress.

[Sam3773]

Well I was dipping my wick into the RDM out camp until I saw this stunning list of replacements.

Allardyce: Good manager, but we don't need any more drama, headlines or ridicule. Could be disasterous on the team's already damaged mentality.

Rowett: Very inexperienced and if you look at our recent unsuccessful track record, inexperienced is where we've looked and fallen over. It can't be a coincidence that the last time we ended in the top half of a table, was with a manager with over 30 years exeprience? (There are, as alwasy, exceptions I know)

Bruce: You can brace yourself for two things. Promotion and a year of the dullest football you've seen. Might be a good shout if only for promotion?

I don't think Xia will pull he trigger any time soon and if he does, do we really think it'll be an up and comer, or Championship stalwart? That may be the correct advice from his local advisors at the club, but this is Dr. Tony Xia, and he does things big. He won't entrust just anyone at the club, a name he's never heard of. He'll want a name with power and meaning. He'll try and go and get Del Bosque or Heynckes or Hiddink and try to entice them to the Championship with money and the promise of more.

Now, you know as well as I, none of those people will come, we'll spend weeks/months trying to get a big name, and drop points in the process. May as well stick with bloody RDM for the rest of the season and hope for a change around.

Or he might just go on his predecessors advice and bring Pearson in next week. Who the hell knows with that guy.

[/IMHO]

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Changing managers could be disastrous. You mean it could get worse than 1 win in 11.

 

If you take the majority view................

Houllier worse than MON.

Lambert worse than Houllier.

Sherwood worse than Lambert.

Garde worse than Sherwood.

Black worse than Garde.

RDM worse than Black.

So, Yes, it could get worse.

[Sam3773]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

RDM worse than Black.

I struggle to believe a majority believe that!

[terrytini]

Yeah but you see my point ?

[terrytini]

6 Managers there.

Well, 5...

And only Lambert was given time.

There is your common denominator.

[markavfc40]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

6 Managers there.

Well, 5...

And only Lambert was given time.

There is your common denominator.

I am all for giving the right manager time but I am beginning to have strong doubts that Di Matteo is the right manager for the reasons I have listed numerous times and no need to bore you with again.

You know what though for as long as he remains here he has the opportunity to prove me wrong and nothing would give me greater pleasure than him doing so.

[Villastine]

FFS the club has undergone massive changes from ownership, board level, backroom staff and playing staff.

We were a complete mess and are gradually getting back on our feet, taking baby steps and for some reason folks on here think we should sack our manager after 10 bloody games!!

People need to cop on. Give the man a chance.

[Mantis]

19 minutes ago, terrytini said:

If you take the majority view................

Houllier worse than MON.

Lambert worse than Houllier.

Sherwood worse than Lambert.

Garde worse than Sherwood.

Black worse than Garde.

RDM worse than Black.

So, Yes, it could get worse.

Is that really the majority view? I think most people understand it's far more complex than that.