Mile Jedinak

[terrytini]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats my take Terry, not his.

Its not just defensive headers there are plenty in the middle of the park that cause us to lose ground and subsequently control.

but the defensive ones cause chaos in the box/ danger zone.

what would have us do then concede them?

One of the reasons the ball is in the air in the middle of the park is because instead of playing the ball through there we have the GK booting it, ( at least when he keeps it in play) Hutton, Elmo, and others hoofing it. The only time it gets played out is if Jack comes back for it, whereupon we have an isolated single striker.

Saturday was a classic example. 

And anyway how can Jedi be back helping screen the defence if he’s in midfield winning headers ?

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

That’s not how I see it. Other than us there is very little aerial stuff. I agree Smith dominated us, but it’s usually little playmakers.

And Smith dominated us but we DID have Jedi !

 

Yes, these theories do not always work.....practicalities do.

but it was the little playmakers that created the guile from Matt Smiths dominance.

you are right on this occassion Jedi did not work, but that maybe down to him, not the job role he had.

just because you play wingers, doesn't guarantee crosses and even if you do get crosses it doesn't guarantee quality ball.

There is much more to this game Terry than theories, game plans and formations....not dismissing them, just more to it.

players have to do the business.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

One of the reasons the ball is in the air in the middle of the park is because instead of playing the ball through there we have the GK booting it, ( at least when he keeps it in play) Hutton, Elmo, and others hoofing it. The only time it gets played out is if Jack comes back for it, whereupon we have an isolated single striker.

Saturday was a classic example. 

And anyway how can Jedi be back helping screen the defence if he’s in midfield winning headers ?

 

I don't think you quite get my meaning......i am talking about aerial ball from them to us, not the other way round.....it puts us on a back foot, because we lose out so much.

albeit when we do hoof it we don't win many of them either.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, sne said:

If the choice is between having a certain midfielder for when we have the ball or another one (Jedi) for when the opponents have the ball I'd go for the one who improves us when we have the ball in pretty much every game in this division.

And i totally agree.....but the tricky bit is when we lose it so often, we could do with both.

If we kept it more, life we be much simpler.

Edited April 2, 2018 by TRO

[OutByEaster?]

I'd take legs over height in that position right now - the player we really need is Idrissa Gueye. 

For Jedinak, his lack of mobility means I think his future will be at CB. I'm not against the idea of playing him as a third one of those rather than a midfielder who sits in front of them - it'd allow our fullbacks a bit more licence to get forward. 

 

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'd take legs over height in that position right now - the player we really need is Idrissa Gueye. 

For Jedinak, his lack of mobility means I think his future will be at CB. I'm not against the idea of playing him as a third one of those rather than a midfielder who sits in front of them - it'd allow our fullbacks a bit more licence to get forward. 

 

I think we seen him at centre back against Sheff Utd.....no thanks.

[OutByEaster?]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think we seen him at centre back against Sheff Utd.....no thanks.

Oh was awful all right, but I think that he's more likely to get better at that position over the summer than he is to develop the ability to run like a midfielder again - the legs have gone, the lungs are no more - he's CB or bust and we may as well get some sort of value out of him.

 

[terrytini]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

Yes, these theories do not always work.....practicalities do.

but it was the little playmakers that created the guile from Matt Smiths dominance.

you are right on this occassion Jedi did not work, but that maybe down to him, not the job role he had.

just because you play wingers, doesn't guarantee crosses and even if you do get crosses it doesn't guarantee quality ball.

There is much more to this game Terry than theories, game plans and formations....not dismissing them, just more to it.

players have to do the business.

Indeed but I would argue that is MY position......you raised the theory of why he played, I raised the reality that as a player he limits our capacity to hurt teams .......so I would see this as a case of being “ hoisted by your own petard “ and I feel better already today at having been able to use that silly phrase ! 

As for your general point about game plans etc I agree - who wouldn’t ? Of course it’s about players.

But right from Under 7’s to Walking Football you get the best from the players if the tactics and style are well drilled and repeatable....and the sides with the better players shoukd always, always, always, look at how they dominate the opposition, not how they protect themselves from them.

[Eastie]

7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'd take legs over height in that position right now - the player we really need is Idrissa Gueye. 

For Jedinak, his lack of mobility means I think his future will be at CB. I'm not against the idea of playing him as a third one of those rather than a midfielder who sits in front of them - it'd allow our fullbacks a bit more licence to get forward. 

 

In theory this works if you have decent attacking full backs - in Elmo case for example - I wonder if green could be used in such a manner as an attacking left back in time .

certainly Taylor and Hutton lack the final delivery in that role .

[TRO]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

Indeed but I would argue that is MY position......you raised the theory of why he played, I raised the reality that as a player he limits our capacity to hurt teams .......so I would see this as a case of being “ hoisted by your own petard “ and I feel better already today at having been able to use that silly phrase ! 

As for your general point about game plans etc I agree - who wouldn’t ? Of course it’s about players.

But right from Under 7’s to Walking Football you get the best from the players if the tactics and style are well drilled and repeatable....and the sides with the better players shoukd always, always, always, look at how they dominate the opposition, not how they protect themselves from them.

I agree.....but if you analyse the points, we are both right.

I am reading Neil warnocks second book the "Gaffer"... He makes reference to a time when Barcelona was training at his QPR training ground before a Euro game with Arsenal....He said he was interested in watching them training, expecting to see some kind of nuevo style or innovative methods....when in fact they was just working the ball in little circles.....He said when you have great players and small because their league is not as physical as the prem, its all you need to do......He also made reference to setting up according to what players you have, not the other way about.

Its an interesting read Terry.

[Eastie]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree.....but if you analyse the points, we are both right.

I am reading Neil warnocks second book the "Gaffer"... He makes reference to a time when Barcelona was training at his QPR training ground before a Euro game with Arsenal....He said he was interested in watching them training, expecting to see some kind of nuevo style or innovative methods....when in fact they was just working the ball in little circles.....He said when you have great players and small because their league is not as physical as the prem, its all you need to do......He also made reference to setting up according to what players you have, not the other way about.

Its an interesting read Terry.

Only a quid on kindle - great book as I told Tro

[TRO]

6 hours ago, terrytini said:

Indeed but I would argue that is MY position......you raised the theory of why he played, I raised the reality that as a player he limits our capacity to hurt teams .......so I would see this as a case of being “ hoisted by your own petard “ and I feel better already today at having been able to use that silly phrase ! 

As for your general point about game plans etc I agree - who wouldn’t ? Of course it’s about players.

But right from Under 7’s to Walking Football you get the best from the players if the tactics and style are well drilled and repeatable....and the sides with the better players shoukd always, always, always, look at how they dominate the opposition, not how they protect themselves from them.

I see it as your enthusiasm for using shakespeare has missed the point.

We are at slightly crossed purposes....I am talking about the reason for playing Jedinak against QPR to protect the centre backs, even though it didn't work.

I think you are talking about his presence being wasted, by not having a proactive midifelder who can carry the fight.

I can see your point, but I think both views have validity.

it still boils down to if you think you can hurt the opposition more than they can hurt you.

I know, your stance and FWIW, I happen to agree with you.....I am always in favour of taking the game to the opposition, provided we do not leave ourselves exposed in doing so, because that partially takes us back to RDM days.

Games always are a balance between attack and defence.....and both are significant.

[lexicon]

Really should have started today at CDM. Needed someone who could give a bit of dirt and physicality back. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Bruce fails to understand when he should and should not be deployed, it's as clear as day.

[Zatman]

I think Murphy and Maddison would have strolled past him all day long

[mikeyp102]

Right choice not to play him, wouldn’t have made any difference. Well need him to defend against Cardiff’s long balls

[VillaChris]

Can see Jedinak AND Whelan starting on Tuesday.

[Eastie]

23 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Can see Jedinak AND Whelan starting on Tuesday.

Wouldn’t be surprised . 

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Can see Jedinak AND Whelan starting on Tuesday.

Thank you for giving me some nightmares

[sne]

CB tonight?

I have a bad feeling...