TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, sne said: IMO it's not worth having what is pretty much a central defender playing in midfield that you get with him in the team. He still brings certain things, but a team fighting for promotion in the Championship shouldn't really need those things except for when defending a lead in the dying moments of a game. We become a worse footballing side with him in it. I think it poses questions of why he is so needed. but he has played much better than his latest offerings. we all offer alternatives, but the end product is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Just now, TRO said: I think it poses questions of why he is so needed. but he has played much better than his latest offerings. we all offer alternatives, but the end product is the same. I don't think he actually is needed at all. I do think we have a manager who rather have an extra defensive player on the pitch rather than an extra creative on. Nothing really wrong with that as long as it works, sadly it doesn't atm. And throwing on a bunch of attackers without having creativity in midfield to support them will fail more times than it will work. Even when you have players with moments of individual brilliance in them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Play him against teams who constantly launch long balls and score a lot of set pieces... apart from that he isn’t needed. I’ve always said, whilst we picked up results last year with him playing, he hinders the way we play. Surely we can play 2 box to midfielders against most teams and not worry about having a dm there 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 if we have to play someone in that position and (as seems to be the case) we have to play Tunazabe if fit, then i'd like to see Tuanzabe in DM as his pace could be useful there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said: Play him against teams who constantly launch long balls and score a lot of set pieces... apart from that he isn’t needed. I’ve always said, whilst we picked up results last year with him playing, he hinders the way we play. Surely we can play 2 box to midfielders against most teams and not worry about having a dm there Absolutely. Hes an unnecessary hinderance and sums up Bruce’s chief weakness, his caution. At home we’ve used Jedi 8 times (!!!) and only Won 4. Away from home we’ve used him 4 times Won 1. Hes useful against certain sides but yesterday was a great example of wasting a player.....and yet again the consequence of him sitting was that the midfield was non existent and easily overran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: I think it poses questions of why he is so needed. but he has played much better than his latest offerings. we all offer alternatives, but the end product is the same. He isn’t needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, terrytini said: He isn’t needed. But he is.......we can't win the ball in the air.....other wise, we wouldn't play him , because he does little else. I am not having a pop at Jedinak, I'm having a pop at the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, terrytini said: Absolutely. Hes an unnecessary hinderance and sums up Bruce’s chief weakness, his caution. At home we’ve used Jedi 8 times (!!!) and only Won 4. Away from home we’ve used him 4 times Won 1. Hes useful against certain sides but yesterday was a great example of wasting a player.....and yet again the consequence of him sitting was that the midfield was non existent and easily overran. It isn't Bruces chief weakness it the teams chief weakness and Bruce needs to fix it. The players he has are the reason we need Jedinak.....you are right with the rest, he has no movement.....with our midfield we need 6 in there. but the players that have movement can't head the ball.....its a conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: It isn't Bruces chief weakness it the teams chief weakness and Bruce needs to fix it. The players he has are the reason we need Jedinak.....you are right with the rest, he has no movement.....with our midfield we need 6 in there. but the players that have movement can't head the ball.....its a conundrum. The thing is Tro - if Bruce knew this area was a weakness why did he bring in hourihane, lansbury and whelan rather than the sort of player you feel we need , he wasted almost £20m on Bree and hogan who’ve been virtually squad players this season . ‘I personally would use tuanzebe as the DM as he is comfortable in that role and better in possession than jedi , more mobile and good in the air . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Eastie said: The thing is Tro - if Bruce knew this area was a weakness why did he bring in hourihane, lansbury and whelan rather than the sort of player you feel we need , he wasted almost £20m on Bree and hogan who’ve been virtually squad players this season . ‘I personally would use tuanzebe as the DM as he is comfortable in that role and better in possession than jedi , more mobile and good in the air . I can only guess......but maybe where we come from, they were ok signings, we have improved snd moved on.....for me, they are limited. but now is a different place to when Bruce took over. as for Tuanzebe, maybe, feasible enough.....but it begs another question are our 2 centre backs good enough in the air to cope without one......Laursen was dominant in the air, so was Mellberg....John is a great player, but in the air, not so dominant for me.....chester a good player, but in the air ,not dominant for me.....they need protection, that leaves other areas short. I am just tossing around topics of thought, thats all......not necessarily conclusions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 We have won 4 games all season with Jedinak starting. We have won 16 without him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, TRO said: It isn't Bruces chief weakness it the teams chief weakness and Bruce needs to fix it. The players he has are the reason we need Jedinak.....you are right with the rest, he has no movement.....with our midfield we need 6 in there. but the players that have movement can't head the ball.....its a conundrum. Not in my view.....We have been frequently outplayed by sides who keep the ball down and pass it. Rarely by sides who keep it in the air. And I really don’t think you can pick a player for that. What it does is allow other more mobile sides freedom. I agree with you we don’t dominate midfield but I don’t think that’s a question of aggression I think it’s because we regularly start from a default position of trying to make sure they don’t hurt us ( so choose a DM like Jedi, get men behind the ball quickly etc) rather than “ how can we hurt them” . In any event Jedi is way too limited in all but a minority of cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, terrytini said: Not in my view.....We have been frequently outplayed by sides who keep the ball down and pass it. Rarely by sides who keep it in the air. And I really don’t think you can pick a player for that. What it does is allow other more mobile sides freedom. I agree with you we don’t dominate midfield but I don’t think that’s a question of aggression I think it’s because we regularly start from a default position of trying to make sure they don’t hurt us ( so choose a DM like Jedi, get men behind the ball quickly etc) rather than “ how can we hurt them” . In any event Jedi is way too limited in all but a minority of cases. Terry, I not trying to be patronising, but come and sit next to me during a game. I will point out how much aerial ball we lose out on......what ground we concede.....what tone we set in the game and what message we send out.....it sends the sharks circling for blood, i have watched it. I too want it played on the ground, but other teams test your resolve by humping it and we in the main fail to deal with it outside one or two players. please understand i am only picking out one aspect of our game and aerial ball is one aspect of domination....I don't disagree with your other references, i am merely saying why i think they play him.....to try and negate our feeble attempts by others. We failed to compete in the air with QPR, Bolton or Hull.....we took one point. just to point out a 21 year old Irish midfielder beat Terry for the first QPR goal, which helped set the tone.....not to make a particular point on that, just a reference. I have been watching carefully our failure to compete.....it pains me to admit it. Edited April 1, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Jedi is occupying a midfield slot because we don’t win enough defensive headers ? Im afraid if that’s Bruces logic he’s lost me totally ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, terrytini said: Jedi is occupying a midfield slot because we don’t win enough defensive headers ? Im afraid if that’s Bruces logic he’s lost me totally ! Thats my take Terry, not his. Its not just defensive headers there are plenty in the middle of the park that cause us to lose ground and subsequently control. but the defensive ones cause chaos in the box/ danger zone. what would have us do then concede them? Edited April 1, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 1, 2018 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2018 We could try keeping the ball on the floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Play him against teams who constantly launch long balls and score a lot of set pieces... apart from that he isn’t needed. I’ve always said, whilst we picked up results last year with him playing, he hinders the way we play. Surely we can play 2 box to midfielders against most teams and not worry about having a dm there Did you watch the QPR game Matt Smith was causing havoc with his 6'6 frame and Eze and Luongo was picking up the second balls from gaps in midfield. Bolton ......Marc Beevers was using his frame too. Edited April 1, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: We could try keeping the ball on the floor. We could.....but much of the opposition, particulary the bottom half of the league don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 If the choice is between having a certain midfielder for when we have the ball or another one (Jedi) for when the opponents have the ball I'd go for the one who improves us when we have the ball in pretty much every game in this division. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, TRO said: We could.....but much of the opposition, particulary the bottom half of the league don't That’s not how I see it. Other than us there is very little aerial stuff. I agree Smith dominated us, but it’s usually little playmakers. And Smith dominated us but we DID have Jedi ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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