srsmithusa Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 If they are cheaters and found to be cheaters that can only help us. So I don’t have a problem with pointing out the published evidence. I can’t imagine a punishment that includes points, but ignoring violations by other clubs will lead to more and more aggregious violations by others. This particular “attack” is not likely to fire up or motivate the players. It’s business practices that are being assailed, not them. Go Keith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, srsmithusa said: If they are cheaters and found to be cheaters that can only help us. So I don’t have a problem with pointing out the published evidence. I can’t imagine a punishment that includes points, but ignoring violations by other clubs will lead to more and more aggregious violations by others. This particular “attack” is not likely to fire up or motivate the players. It’s business practices that are being assailed, not them. Go Keith. it will all come out in the wash . Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, StewieGriffin said: Worst case (for them) they'll get a huge fine. The EFL/FA aren't going to give them a points deduction - it'd cause chaos with lawsuits and whatnot. Seems a pointless argument to start for me other than to say "We didn't get promoted because Wolves cheated" - which won't be the case ‘No team is above the rules - ask rangers and juventus. Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Willard Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Can anyone summarise the stories of what wolves are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Lord Willard said: Can anyone summarise the stories of what wolves are doing. You missed out the word allegedly . Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) Having researched (checked twitter) there are two parts to the story - 1) It appears a Fosun subsidiary own a share of Mendez's business, and the long and short of it is that expensive players are not having their full wages recorded - meanwhile Mendez is probably topping them up via unreported cash flow from Fosun to Mendez. 2) That said, they have just published their accounts and are very publicly over FFP limits, so however the poo travels through the cooling device they are due some punishment from the league. You wonder actually how bad their accounts really are. Re FFP - The Express report that they have recorded debt over three years of: 4.3m, 23.8 - and this period have spent 34.7m on players - the cap is 39m over three years. And if you have to put the following in your accounts then you are basically admitting you've fooked up: In their strategic report in the accounts, the directors admit that the loss was due to the club's investment in the playing squad, "and therefore there is a risk in repsent of complyuing with the Profit and Sustainability regulations, where failure to meet the required thresholds can result in both financial and operational sanctions to the group". As a result they are monitoring the situation "month on month", comparing their forecasts for financial performance against the regulations, "to ensure the directors can respond to any potential forecasted breaches to mitigage the risk of such sanctions". https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2018/03/09/revealed-wolves-spend-67m-in-bid-to-make-the-premier-league/ Edited March 9, 2018 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 But the FFP is counted over a 3 year period, right? And their finances before last season was very good, and IF they are promoted they will get loads of cash. So over a 3 year period they should be fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, sne said: But the FFP is counted over a 3 year period, right? And their finances before last season was very good, and IF they are promoted they will get loads of cash. So over a 3 year period they should be fine? I've probably got it all wrong, but 2016 debt was 4.3m, then rose (not added) to 23.8 in 2017 - and then this year they have made their biggest splurge yet so however it breaks down it'll mean a bigger rise in debt than was seen the year before - which means they'll be over FFP and this has to be the fact that folks like Wyness are basing their argument on - must be very frustrating having to run a tight ship only to see charlatans come in and pay no respect to the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, Jareth said: Having researched (checked twitter) there are two parts to the story - 1) It appears a Fosun subsidiary own a share of Mendez's business, and the long and short of it is that expensive players are not having their full wages recorded - meanwhile Mendez is probably topping them up via unreported cash flow from Fosun to Mendez. 2) That said, they have just published their accounts and are very publicly over FFP limits, so however the poo travels through the cooling device they are due some punishment from the league. You wonder actually how bad their accounts really are. Re FFP - The Express report that they have recorded debt over three years of: 4.3m, 23.8 - and this period have spent 34.7m on players - the cap is 39m over three years. And if you have to put the following in your accounts then you are basically admitting you've fooked up: In their strategic report in the accounts, the directors admit that the loss was due to the club's investment in the playing squad, "and therefore there is a risk in repsent of complyuing with the Profit and Sustainability regulations, where failure to meet the required thresholds can result in both financial and operational sanctions to the group". As a result they are monitoring the situation "month on month", comparing their forecasts for financial performance against the regulations, "to ensure the directors can respond to any potential forecasted breaches to mitigage the risk of such sanctions". https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2018/03/09/revealed-wolves-spend-67m-in-bid-to-make-the-premier-league/ If that’s true the it’s making a mockery of the system... but if they get away with it then we should totally go the same! But if some action isn’t taken then it will make the FFP rule look very weak, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a nail in the coffin for FFP if they get away with it. I hope they give them more than a slap on the wrist, as it’s not just that they’ve broken the rules, they’ve obfuscated what’s happening and tried to get it done sneakily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 Just now, alreadyexists said: If that’s true the it’s making a mockery of the system... but if they get away with it then we should totally go the same! But if some action isn’t taken then it will make the FFP rule look very weak, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a nail in the coffin for FFP if they get away with it. I hope they give them more than a slap on the wrist, as it’s not just that they’ve broken the rules, they’ve obfuscated what’s happening and tried to get it done sneakily. I'm only going on what the Express says, but they are reporting actual accounts - the upshot is that anyone calling foul play is justified, and it is not sour grapes. No doubting that Wolves have a good manager and a fantastic team at this level, but if they have cheated the system to get there then I've absolutely no respect for that. I really hope the league now show what happens when clubs cheat, we've certainly been led to believe that punishment basically equates to having unfairly earned promotion, cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jareth said: Having researched (checked twitter) there are two parts to the story - 1) It appears a Fosun subsidiary own a share of Mendez's business, and the long and short of it is that expensive players are not having their full wages recorded - meanwhile Mendez is probably topping them up via unreported cash flow from Fosun to Mendez. 2) That said, they have just published their accounts and are very publicly over FFP limits, so however the poo travels through the cooling device they are due some punishment from the league. You wonder actually how bad their accounts really are. Re FFP - The Express report that they have recorded debt over three years of: 4.3m, 23.8 - and this period have spent 34.7m on players - the cap is 39m over three years. And if you have to put the following in your accounts then you are basically admitting you've fooked up: In their strategic report in the accounts, the directors admit that the loss was due to the club's investment in the playing squad, "and therefore there is a risk in repsent of complyuing with the Profit and Sustainability regulations, where failure to meet the required thresholds can result in both financial and operational sanctions to the group". As a result they are monitoring the situation "month on month", comparing their forecasts for financial performance against the regulations, "to ensure the directors can respond to any potential forecasted breaches to mitigage the risk of such sanctions". https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2018/03/09/revealed-wolves-spend-67m-in-bid-to-make-the-premier-league/ The plot thickens Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 Just now, Eastie said: The big question being asked is are the players being paid via fosun or wolves accounts . So over FFP limit, and breaching rules on third party ownership. Where's the popcorn! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) Edit - repost Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jareth said: I'm only going on what the Express says, but they are reporting actual accounts - the upshot is that anyone calling foul play is justified, and it is not sour grapes. No doubting that Wolves have a good manager and a fantastic team at this level, but if they have cheated the system to get there then I've absolutely no respect for that. I really hope the league now show what happens when clubs cheat, we've certainly been led to believe that punishment basically equates to having unfairly earned promotion, cancelled. The league have made clear the punishment can include demotion -instead of playing at Chelsea and man United they may find themselves at Walsall and Rochdale Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jareth said: So over FFP limit, and breaching rules on third party ownership. Where's the popcorn! Allegedly ‘I wonder if moxey walked out because something was amiss? Edited March 9, 2018 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eastie said: The league have made clear the punishment can include demotion - would love it if instead of playing at Chelsea and man United they find themselves at Walsall and Rochdale And also means we're basically sat in a promotion spot. What a world, we could see the tesco bags, SHA and the cheating dog heads all drop a league, while we go up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 We really shouldn’t get our hopes up though. 1) they are probably safe, 2) Even if... this is football and standing by and doing nothing till the last minute before offering a fine is standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIVillan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Leicester I think broke the rules to get themselves promoted. A fine is hanging over their head but they do not have to pay it unless they are relegated and back under Football League management. Not sure if there is a time limit on this fine but similar to QPR and how they were shafted when relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Dick said: We really shouldn’t get our hopes up though. 1) they are probably safe, 2) Even if... this is football and standing by and doing nothing till the last minute before offering a fine is standard. Tell that to Swindon town ,Boston , rangers, juventus etc - as Bruce said today let the authorities investigate and see where it goes - the rule change made quite clear that the penalties are unlimited . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, NIVillan said: Leicester I think broke the rules to get themselves promoted. A fine is hanging over their head but they do not have to pay it unless they are relegated and back under Football League management. Not sure if there is a time limit on this fine but similar to QPR and how they were shafted when relegated All changed after Bournemouth’s promotion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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