The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[snowychap]

54 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

When is the vote?

The 'meaningful' vote? 11th Dec, apparently.

 

[foreveryoung]

11 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

They have indicated as such and it's in the best interests of the EU for us to be a member.

Exactly. We had a very good deal as it stood and we could end up screwing it up with our collective tantrum.

Source? or just more off the cuff nonsense?

There's no doubt it will cost us to sign back up an stay. It costs us to much even now! 

My goodness you really are a remainer aren't you. Could you just enlighten me to this good deal we had with the EU. Why ever did we ever consider leaving if we had it so good.

[HanoiVillan]

20 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

You really think your pals at the EU would just let us back in should we decide to stay. We will have more rules we previously have had the option of refusing before, an it'll probably cost us 200 billion to get back in. 

We haven't actually left yet, and all this talk of a second referendum (which I don't agree with, really, though I can see that other options are shit as well) is being predicated on a referendum being done before we formally left (ie, after an extension of the Article 50 deadline).

Obviously the process for readmission after leaving would be much more complex (and probably costly, you're right). 

[tonyh29]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Right, I don't disagree. But if the ECJ rule the other way, then (supposing UKGov took the decision to do so, which currently seems unlikely but who knows) if we revoked before the 29th of March, there would be no need to reapply, because we wouldn't have left. 

Maybe we're agreeing with each other here, I'm not sure?

Sounds like we are in a round about way

Edited November 25, 2018 by tonyh29

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

Sounds like we are in a round about way

Well, it would be too weird for us to agree directly 

There's a lot riding on Tuesday. 

[bickster]

40 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I see the flaw in your plan.

Well yes, the big red bus says £394 mil a week for the NHS now, is she really that naive to go all in on a busted flush?

The £350mil was a lie then, everyone knows that now, so she adds another £44mil to the pot. It's a hell of Hail Mary, its been thrown from a different stadium

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

There's no doubt it will cost us to sign back up an stay. It costs us to much even now! 

My goodness you really are a remainer aren't you. Could you just enlighten me to this good deal we had with the EU. Why ever did we ever consider leaving if we had it so good.

Wrong, along with every other post you've made tonight you've done no reading, no fact checking and show scant knowledge of the subject

Nearly everything you've said is demonstrably wrong. none of it stands up to any scrutiny

Sadly its fairly typical of people on your side of the debate

[bickster]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

If the ECJ rule that A50 can’t be revoked

It's pretty much a given that they won't. The government knows it, that's why they used no less than 5 QC's to attempt to prevent the case going to the ECJ in the Supreme Court last week. Case thrown out in 5 minutes

[HanoiVillan]

In the last hour, May has proposed a TV debate with Corbyn on the WA, and he has accepted (although in a way that suggests he wants to talk about other things as well). Interesting to see how this plays out. 

EDIT: Here:

'. . . and the future of our country' is the giveaway there. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by HanoiVillan

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

In the last hour, May has proposed a TV debate with Corbyn on the WA, and he has accepted (although in a way that suggests he wants to talk about other things as well). Interesting to see how this plays out. 

EDIT: Here:

'. . . and the future of our country' is the giveaway there. 

Another Hail Mary, I predict she'll be in the dustbin of history before it happens. She's no good at debate, that's why she ran away from them last time

Though the idea of a remainer proposing to leave debating with a pretend remainer proposing a better way to leave seems utterly utterly pointless, especially as Corbyn does not represent a major strand of opinion in this debate, Labour are almost as out of touch with reality as Teresa May's wing of the Tory Party.

[chrisp65]

yep, could be ultimate car crash TV, a leader that doesn't believe in Brexit arguing for Brexit against a leader that believes in Brexit arguing against the deal

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

14 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

yep, could be ultimate car crash TV, a leader that doesn't believe in Brexit arguing for Brexit against a leader that believes in Brexit arguing against the deal

I know we've done this many times before, but that isn't an accurate summary of either leader's views. 

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

There's no doubt it will cost us to sign back up an stay. It costs us to much even now! 

My goodness you really are a remainer aren't you. Could you just enlighten me to this good deal we had with the EU. Why ever did we ever consider leaving if we had it so good.

Everything you're posting is wrong, and when it's countered you're ignoring the answer and moving the goalposts.

[blandy]

11 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

There's no doubt it will cost us to sign back up an stay. It costs us to much even now! 

My goodness you really are a remainer aren't you. Could you just enlighten me to this good deal we had with the EU. Why ever did we ever consider leaving if we had it so good.

I get what you’re saying. The cost to us now is about 1% of our income as a country. For that fee we get some stuff. Some people reckon it’s well worth it, some don’t see much if anything from it. Thats opinion and circumstances. Overall we’re better off for it, but if an individual doesn’t see anything then I can see why they personally would kind of want to leave. There’s also stuff like being able to pretty easily just go and live or work abroad, or have an easy passage through for holidays etc. Personally I see the economic and financial argument as being hugely weighted in favour of staying in.

Where I think leave has more of a stronger argument is around other aspects. The EU is flawed and works better for say Germany than for Greece, or for Poland than the UK. Different nations get different things.

The reasons to leave have been around immigration, alleged sovereignty, lack of democracy and cost. The only one that stacks up for me is the democracy one. The others, we’ve been lied to by the leave campaign, big style.  They’ve used “well I don’t see what it does for me” as an argument, but really it’s our own governments who have failed to look after people properly that’s to blame for that side of things. And the words removed fighting to leave are the main culprits of that. People who will gain from leaving, personally, while making normal people worse off. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by blandy
typos on phone

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

9 hours ago, bickster said:

so she adds another £44mil to the pot. It's a hell of Hail Mary

Don't forget the "free movement of people will be stopped" that is sprinkled in ever more quantities.

These are crumbs of well baked BS from the May oven that will sway some remainers,  a lot of them I suspect in the next few days.

I have a horrible feeling it will get past the Commons.  I don't know how she has got this far (It defies logic if you look back over the last 18 months) ,  she should have thrown the towel in a long time ago but this really does feel like a Rocky film now.  

We are in the 11th round and the ghost of Maggie is about to scream "Now, do it now" and bang on the canvas.

Hope I am wrong but something is going on with the 94,  I am sure of it.  

 

[desensitized43]

12 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

You really think your pals at the EU would just let us back in should we decide to stay. We will have more rules we previously have had the option of refusing before, an it'll probably cost us 200 billion to get back in. 

Comments like this really annoy me. They're not anyone's "pals"...there are no "pals" here. When you say things like that it implies that people are by implication more loyal to the EU than they are to this country. It's not and has never been a binary "you either want us out or you're a traitor" argument. You can both want what's best for the country and want us to be in the EU.

You're also making wild assumptions that the EU would both be able to stop/punish us if we decide to stay (that court case is ongoing, results tba) or would make demands of us to stay. I heard a quotte from the leader of one of the main parties in the EU parliament the other day where they suggested we'd be "charged the cost of the negotiations as we'd caused the problem". Sounds pretty reasonable to me. I've heard no mention from anyone on "their" side in authority that we would be made to accept demands giving the EU more powers. Please try to speculate based on facts rather than wild opinion.

[NurembergVillan]

8 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Comments like this really annoy me. They're not anyone's "pals"...there are no "pals" here. When you say things like that it implies that people are by implication more loyal to the EU than they are to this country. It's not and has never been a binary "you either want us out or you're a traitor" argument. You can both want what's best for the country and want us to be in the EU.

You're also making wild assumptions that the EU would both be able to stop/punish us if we decide to stay (that court case is ongoing, results tba) or would make demands of us to stay. I heard a quotte from the leader of one of the main parties in the EU parliament the other day where they suggested we'd be "charged the cost of the negotiations as we'd caused the problem". Sounds pretty reasonable to me. I've heard no mention from anyone on "their" side in authority that we would be made to accept demands giving the EU more powers. Please try to speculate based on facts rather than wild opinion.

3

Good post on the whole, but the part in bold doesn't really tally up with the approach to the Leave campaign 

[lapal_fan]

14 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

There's no doubt it will cost us to sign back up an stay. It costs us to much even now! 

My goodness you really are a remainer aren't you. Could you just enlighten me to this good deal we had with the EU. Why ever did we ever consider leaving if we had it so good.

First sentence, no it won't cost us any more money should we decide to pick up our toys and stat in the club.  No one will be forced to pay an extra penny on top of what we already do.  So that's that.

Second sentence (u rele r a wemaina ain't cha?) - Is that a bad thing?  Is it uncool to be a remainer?  Not so sure, but at least many of the remainers don't flat out believe what's told to them through The Sun or Mail. 

Third sentence - Yes actually.  We have a great deal.  You know when you go abroad and don't have to queue in huge lines, or you can just quickly zip through the tunnel in your car and you can drive all the way to more or less Alaska if you want?  That's freedom of movement buddy, as long as you have that Brown (blue..) passport, you can go anywhere relatively hassle free.  Also, you know when you buy shit when you're abroad and because we chose to keep our pounds in 2002, instead of joining the Euro, we get (or got) good rates.  I used to get 1 euro, 50 cents for 1 pound - It was nice having 50% free on everything in the main European countries wasn't it?  We chose that.  

You ever been injured or sick enough to have to go to hospital?  Oh god there are loads of Polish, brown people (some with bonus turbans) and black people innit?  I mean, yeah - they fix our broken bodies, so not all of them are that bad.  Well you can thank the good'ole EU for those people who know how to fix broken bodies - Our government cannot train enough of these people for the number of positions that there are, so we get help from EU nationals.  This will only get worse with more Tory gov's by the way.  Those halcyon days of long, open wards with matrons walking around beasting the white nurses are long gone. 

You know how we haven't had loads of really bad terrorist attacks?  Well that's partly down the the EU, because the anti terror teams in the UK/EU help each other - without us being in the EU, we don't have access to that information, so you could argue that we might see more attacks? 

They protect EU citizens from being sold absolute shite - they have much stricter standards for quality control, meaning that what we buy has to be of a certain quality, from trusted suppliers.  Without the EU, we wouldn't have that protection, and because businesses like to earn money, they'll cut down quality in the products to maximize their profits.  It could be anything from a bridge being built with shitty concrete or steel rebars, to silly things like not "cleaning" your chicken in Chlorine and other nasty chemicals which could cause cancer and stuff later in life (LOL - losers aren't we?!) 

All in all, if you look at your tax letters and the breakdowns, you'll see on a lovely pie-chart the breakdown of what (how much) you're personally spending on what item.  Out of all your 20% tax (assuming you're not on 40 or 45%), then only 0.7% is sent to the EU - for EVERYTHING we get.  So, those penny pinching Bureaucrats, the bastard Poles etc actually cost you 0.7p per pound. 

You're **** right I'm pissed off about leaving.  You're **** right I'm a remainer.  Look at how shitty the Government have handled the entire situation - YOU trust them to do a better job at running our country entirely?  You really are a Brexiter, my goodness. 

Forth sentence.  That's the problem - we didn't.  David Cameron thought it was a shoe in to remain, he never thought in a million years half the retards in the country would vote exit and he's split this country like it never has in my lifetime.  Nice one Dave, you word removed.  

Edited November 26, 2018 by lapal_fan

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

First sentence, no it won't cost us any more money should we decide to pick up our toys and stat in the club.  No one will be forced to pay an extra penny on top of what we already do.  So that's that.

Second sentence (u rele r a wemaina ain't cha?) - Is that a bad thing?  Is it uncool to be a remainer?  Not so sure, but at least many of the remainers don't flat out believe what's told to them through The Sun or Mail. 

Third sentence - Yes actually.  We have a great deal.  You know when you go abroad and don't have to queue in huge lines, or you can just quickly zip through the tunnel in your car and you can drive all the way to more or less Alaska if you want?  That's freedom of movement buddy, as long as you have that Brown (blue..) passport, you can go anywhere relatively hassle free.  Also, you know when you buy shit when you're abroad and because we chose to keep our pounds in 2002, instead of joining the Euro, we get (or got) good rates.  I used to 1 euro, 50 cents for 1 pounds - that was nice having 50% free on everything in the main European countries wasn't it?  We chose that.  

You been injured or sick enough to have to go to hospital?  Oh god there are loads of Polish, brown people (some with bonus turbans) and black people innit?  I mean, yeah - they fix our broken bodies, so not all of them are that bad.  Well you can thank the good'ole EU for those people who know how to fix broken bodies - Our government cannot train enough of these people for the number of positions that are there, so we get help from EU nationals.  This will only get worse with more Tory gov's by the way.  Those halcyon days of long, open wards with matrons walking around beasting the white nurses are long gone. 

You know how we haven't had loads of really bad terrorist attacks?  Well that's partly down the the EU, because the anti terror teams in the UK/EU help each other - without us being in the EU, we don't have access to that information, so you could argue that we might see more attacks? 

They protect EU citizens from being sold absolute shite - they have much stricter standards for quality control, meaning that what we buy has to be of a certain quality, from trusted suppliers.  Without the EU, we wouldn't have that protection, and because businesses like to earn money, they'll cut down quality in the products to maximize their profits.  It could be anything from a bridge being built with shitty concrete or steel rebars, to silly things like not "cleaning" your chicken in Chlorine and other nasty chemicals which could cause cancer and stuff later in life (LOL - losers aren't we?!) 

All in all, if you look at your tax letters and the breakdowns, you'll see on a lovely pie-chart the breakdown of what (how much) you're personally spending on what item.  Out of all your 20% tax (assuming you're not on 40 or 45%), then only 0.7% is sent to the EU - for EVERYTHING we get.  So, those penny pinching Bureaucrats, the bastard Poles etc actually cost you 0.7p per pound. 

You're **** right I'm pissed off about leaving.  You're **** right I'm a remainer.  Look at how shitty the Government have handled the entire situation - YOU trust them to do a better job at running our country entirely?  You really are a Brexiter, my goodness. 

Forth sentence.  That's the problem - we didn't David Cameron thought it was a shoe in to remain, he never thought in a million years half the retards in the country would vote exit and he's split this country like it never has in my lifetime.  Nice one Dave, you word removed.  

I love you

[lapal_fan]

Here you go, because I know you won't go looking for the fact, BEACUSE YOU'RE A LEAVER (haha, I'm tarring you with a brush), here is what you spend your money on;

Tax summary description	Description of PESA source (See PESA Table 5.2)	Public Sector Expenditure (£bn)	%
Welfare	‘Social Protection’ excluding state pensions	172.7	24.3
Health	Health	144.3	20.3
State Pensions	Within ‘Social Protection’ 1	91.6	12.9
Education	Education	87.2	12.3
National Debt Interest	Within General Public Services, but shown in more detail in table 5.2	39.4	5.5
Defence	Defence	37.0	5.2
Public Order & Safety	Public Order & Safety	30.1	4.2
Transport	Economic Affairs, without Business and Industry but shown in more detail in table 5.2	29.6	4.2
Business & Industry	Economic Affairs, without Transport	17.5	2.5
Government Administration	Captured under General Public Services, but shown in more detail in table 5.2	15.2	2.1
Environment	Environment protection	11.3	1.6
Culture (e.g. sports, libraries, museums)	Recreation, Culture & Religion	11.6	1.6
Housing and utilities (eg street lights)	Housing & Community Amenities	10.6	1.5
Overseas Aid	Captured under General Public Services, but shown in more detail in table 5.2	7.7	1.1
UK Contributions to EU budget	EU Transactions	4.7	0.7

 

I even highlighted it in RED for you, in case you can't be arsed to read the post!     

 

We send more money to **** AFRICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - Oh god, now I hate them silly poor countries, where, I assume (because **** going to look for info) they have 36 children, live on 1p per day, walk 250 miles for 1 litre of water, but secretly they all live in underground mansions, paid for by those massive diamonds I saw in the movie "Blood Diamond"

 

 

Hang on.. isn't there a woman who lives with monkeys too?  **** HER WHITE ASS. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by lapal_fan