The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Awol]

Just now, ml1dch said:

If there's one thing we've learned from this sorry episode it's that asking the public is a surefire way to get a stupid answer to the question you've asked.

I know, why do we even bother with elections anyway? Stupid bloody plebs. Plato had it right, Government should be done by experts and knowledgeable souls, free'd from democratic control to create works of genius.

Like the Euro. 

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Awol said:

Yep, you've got me on loose use of language. Fair enough. As I think you know I was trying to say the U.K.  Parliament is elected to serve the interests of the U.K. electorate at the inter-state level.

As you demonstrated it's possible to find a form of words to technically disprove that, but if you asked the public a yes or no question on whether Parliament was supposed to serve the interests of the UK, I'd bet on a majority for yes.

No, actually. I still don't agree. It wasn't about pedantry or use of language originally. My point is that your claim that MPs duty is to look after Brits in the EU nations, rather than/ before EU citizens resident in the UK was wrong, that MPs first duty is to look after and represent their constituents.

You can ask the public questions, but you don't always get the right answer

I do agree that the government has a duty to help Brits abroad where they need help, etc. though.

 

[Awol]

Just now, blandy said:

No, actually. I still don't agree. It wasn't about pedantry or use of language originally. My point is that your claim that MPs duty is to look after Brits in the EU nations, rather than/ before EU citizens resident in the UK was wrong, that MPs first duty is to look after and represent their constituents.

You can ask the public questions, but you don't always get the right
answer

I do agree that the government has a duty to help Brits abroad where they need help, etc. though.

Which is part of what I was trying to say, only I'd go further to say the duty of Parliament is to represent the duty of British citizens everywhere, over and above their duties to the interests of non-British citizens residing in the UK.  

Anyway it's done now, so hopefully the rights of Brit's in the EU and EU citizens in the UK will get sorted out together and at the earliest opportunity.   

[Awol]

Torygraph has a story today quoting a leaked document from the EU in the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant @Amsterdam_Neil_D - seen this?

Apparently if the UK refuses to pay a £50B exiting the EU fee dreamed up in Brussels then the EU will take UK to the International Court of Justice in the Hague. I don't think they've really considered the distribution of EU assets to the UK which will form part of any agreement, but seems plausible it could either end up in Court or with the Council taking control of the negotiations from ideologues and drunkards like Juncker in the Commission.  

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

3 minutes ago, Awol said:

Torygraph has a story today quoting a leaked document from the EU in the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant @Amsterdam_Neil_D - seen this?

Apparently if the UK refuses to pay a £50B exiting the EU fee dreamed up in Brussels then the EU will take UK to the International Court of Justice in the Hague. I don't think they've really considered the distribution of EU assets to the UK which will form part of any agreement, but seems plausible it could either end up in Court or with the Council taking control of the negotiations from ideologues and drunkards like Juncker in the Commission.  

 

I will take a look in a bit,  nice one.  (Just going past Haarlem where I think the oldest Newspaper in the world was launched, 90% sure on that)

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

I know, why do we even bother with elections anyway? Stupid bloody plebs. Plato had it right, Government should be done by experts and knowledgeable souls, free'd from democratic control to create works of genius.

Like the Euro. 

I'm not sure MI1dch is suggesting we do away with elections so your reply is disingenuous at best,

What I would say though, is that the Brexit ref was an argument against direct democracy; with no weighting on the result in that opinion.

[darrenm]

3 hours ago, Awol said:

The Vampire Squid moves a few hundred bankers into Europe from London staff of 6000, cracks on with building new 9 storey regional HQ in London.

The sky is not yet falling in - but your concern for the 1% is admirable  

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by darrenm

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

2 hours ago, ml1dch said:

If there's one thing we've learned from this sorry episode it's that asking the public is a surefire way to get a stupid answer to the question you've asked.

Do you feel the same about the one to get us into the EEC?

Edited March 22, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[Awol]

1 hour ago, darrenm said:

Pure genius.

[tonyh29]

3 hours ago, ml1dch said:

If there's one thing we've learned from this sorry episode it's that asking the public is a surefire way to get a stupid answer to the question you've asked.

 

[lapal_fan]

59 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

 

There are some absolute genius names on there.

 

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

Pure genius.

I can't take any credit, I didn't draw it.

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

 

A perfect example of how you don't have to accept a daft answer when asking the public

[Awol]

51 minutes ago, darrenm said:

A perfect example of how you don't have to accept a daft answer when asking the public

PM: 'Dear Public, would you like to leave or remain within the EU? Btw, it's your call & we will implement whatever you decide - no take backs.'

Public: 'Hmm. As you've asked we'd actually like to leave, please.'

PM: 'Oh. Bugger. Terribly sorry everyone but we lied about giving you the choice to you and we can't leave after all. That okay with you guys....?'

All very well folks like you saying we should simply ignore the result, but I don't think many have actually thought through the consequences of doing so.

Fortunately the majority of Remain supporting MPs have done, hence the Article 50 legislation.

 

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, Awol said:

Fortunately the majority of Remain supporting MPs have done, hence the Article 50 legislation.

 

While completely abandoning the wishes of their constituents.

[HanoiVillan]

'I like big boats & I cannot lie' is absolutely brilliant. Genuine lol. 

[Rodders]

What iceberg? tickled me plenty.  But yeah, great list. Think we should have a write-in referendum when Liz pops her clogs too  

[blandy]

44 minutes ago, Awol said:

PM: 'Dear Public, would you like to leave or remain within the EU? Btw, it's your call & we will implement whatever you decide - no take backs.'

Public: 'Hmm. As you've asked we'd actually like to leave, please.'

PM: 'Oh. Bugger. Terribly sorry everyone but we lied about giving you the choice to you and we can't leave after all. That okay with you guys....?'

All very well folks like you saying we should simply ignore the result, but I don't think many have actually thought through the consequences of doing so.

Fortunately the majority of Remain supporting MPs have done, hence the Article 50 legislation.

 

PM: 'Dear Public, would you like to advise us what you think on leave or remain within the EU? BTW We'll look at what the outcome is, and if there's a strong result either way, then that'll drive us towards making a decision. Obviously there's not much information available about what will be the consequences, so if "Leave" is a clear reply, then we'd have been smarter to get more details and let you and parliament confirm your view before we act definitely to leave.

Public: 'Hmm. As you've asked we'd actually like to leave, please.'

PM: 'Oh. Bugger. Terribly sorry everyone but we lied about giving you the information you should have had, we lied about reaching accord with Wales and NI ans Scotland, we're just gonna leap into the dark and say we've got a mandate for a hard Brexit. We don't care if that's okay with you guys. The Sun and The Mail llike it and we'll all have done a runner by the time the shit hits the fan.

[Awol]

38 minutes ago, blandy said:

PM: 'Dear Public, would you like to advise us what you think on leave or remain within the EU? BTW We'll look at what the outcome is, and if there's a strong result either way, then that'll drive us towards making a decision. Obviously there's not much information available about what will be the consequences, so if "Leave" is a clear reply, then we'd have been smarter to get more details and let you and parliament confirm your view before we act definitely to leave.

Public: 'Hmm. As you've asked we'd actually like to leave, please.'

PM: 'Oh. Bugger. Terribly sorry everyone but we lied about giving you the information you should have had, we lied about reaching accord with Wales and NI ans Scotland, we're just gonna leap into the dark and say we've got a mandate for a hard Brexit. We don't care if that's okay with you guys. The Sun and The Mail llike it and we'll all have done a runner by the time the shit hits the fan.

Probably what they should have said, but woulda / coulda /shoulda is way behind us now (or if Cameron had had the foresight to actually make the legislation binding and let the people decide anyway).

But I think you've already said in this thread that the result can't now be chinned off, as Darren and others would like to see happen? Basically you're of the same view as those Remain supporting MPs who, amendments aside, voted for Article 50. Right? 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Awol

[StefanAVFC]