The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[bannedfromHandV]

It’s going over old ground and it’s largely irrelevant now but you could tear apart the reasons we left the EU in multiple directions. Ultimately, for me at least, it boiled down to a handful of influential people who decided to tap into the bubbling unrest amongst large sections of the UK population to bring about a protest vote. And on the opposite side there was total naivety and an arrogance in believing that the country wouldn’t be dumb enough to vote for it.

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

It’s going over old ground and it’s largely irrelevant now but you could tear apart the reasons we left the EU in multiple directions. Ultimately, for me at least, it boiled down to a handful of influential people who decided to tap into the bubbling unrest amongst large sections of the UK population to bring about a protest vote. And on the opposite side there was total naivety and an arrogance in believing that the country wouldn’t be dumb enough to vote for it.

The vision that was sold by vote leave was that the UK could keep all the good bits of EU membership without any downsides. That was the big lie. 

[StefanAVFC]

44 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

It’s going over old ground and it’s largely irrelevant now but you could tear apart the reasons we left the EU in multiple directions. Ultimately, for me at least, it boiled down to a handful of influential people who decided to tap into the bubbling unrest amongst large sections of the UK population to bring about a protest vote. And on the opposite side there was total naivety and an arrogance in believing that the country wouldn’t be dumb enough to vote for it.

This, plus Leave sold a new reality, whereas Remain could only offer a (crap*) status quo.

*crap as defined by Leave

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

The vision that was sold by vote leave was that the UK could keep all the good bits of EU membership without any downsides. That was the big lie. 

I agree but did people really expect this? I mean everyone hates the tories yet trusts their words on this?

Also one of the biggest people behind it was farage who everyone knows is a complete imbecile so why would you believe that moron? 

Im sorry but the people didnt know what they voting for doesnt wash for me. People have to take responsibility for the way they voted too.

 

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I agree but did people really expect this? I mean everyone hates the tories yet trusts their words on this?

Also one of the biggest people behind it was farage who everyone knows is a complete imbecile so why would you believe that moron? 

Im sorry but the people didnt know what they voting for doesnt wash for me. People have to take responsibility for the way they voted too.

 

I think the a lot of the reason people dislike and distrust the tories is because of Brexit.

[Demitri_C]

11 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think the a lot of the reason people dislike and distrust the tories is because of Brexit.

But it wasnt just the tories labour didnt really do much either to educate or reverse. The only parties that were opposed to brexit from what i remember was lib dems and SNP.

Jo swinson said she would try take us back into EU if lib dems won and they performed horrificly at last election. Alot of peoplw still support brexit it seems if tahts anything to go by

Edited May 11, 2023 by Demitri_C

[Rustibrooks]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

It’s going over old ground and it’s largely irrelevant now but you could tear apart the reasons we left the EU in multiple directions. Ultimately, for me at least, it boiled down to a handful of influential people who decided to tap into the bubbling unrest amongst large sections of the UK population to bring about a protest vote. And on the opposite side there was total naivety and an arrogance in believing that the country wouldn’t be dumb enough to vote for it.

If I’m being honest I was definitely one of the ones that thought the UK wouldn’t vote to leave. I voted to remain and assumed it would be a landslide decision. Maybe because I live in London and I’m in a 'big city' bubble. But I was shocked the next day when I saw the results.

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Rustibrooks said:

If I’m being honest I was definitely one of the ones that thought the UK wouldn’t vote to leave. I voted to remain and assumed it would be a landslide decision. Maybe because I live in London and I’m in a 'big city' bubble. But I was shocked the next day when I saw the results.

Even Nigal Farage was shocked. He was talking up a rerun of the vote while counting was underway. 

[Rustibrooks]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

Even Nigal Farage was shocked. He was talking up a rerun of the vote while counting was underway. 

I still remember going into work the next day and everyone was in shock except for a couple of people that voted to leave

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

I still remember going into work the next day and everyone was in shock except for a couple of people that voted to leave

You'd have to suspect a far greater chunk of Leave voters didn't actually work at the time

(and yes I know its a massive generalisation)

[The Fun Factory]

In regards to leaving the EU even right-wing nutjobs like Orban haven't left the club which suggests  it probably wasn't a great idea.

[Rustibrooks]

24 minutes ago, bickster said:

You'd have to suspect a far greater chunk of Leave voters didn't actually work at the time

(and yes I know its a massive generalisation)

Definitely! I had a few ex-neighbours which were your stereotypical lower income families that spouted out the same rhetoric that the media that wanted to leave were saying. One of my ex-neighbours was worried because I think it was the Daily Mail at the time were saying 10 million migrants will be arriving by the end of the year. I had to laugh at them and ask them if they really thought that was realistically possible or not as it a play on insecurities and they thought I was the mad one. 

[tinker]

6 hours ago, Genie said:

The vision that was sold by vote leave was that the UK could keep all the good bits of EU membership without any downsides. That was the big lie. 

I voted remain, i love Europe and believe its easily the best place in the world to live.

The deal we have now is the worst  deal we could have had and thats down to a few idiots who overplayed our hand to grab the headlines amd the votes.  We can have a better deal than we have now if we get around the table and be sensible. Free trade and movement  of people would be a start.

The world's changed since brexit, Russia started threatening Eastern Europe ( Russia  backing  brexit makes sense) The UK has a big part to play in Europe's security and history proves that.

[Wainy316]

1 hour ago, Rustibrooks said:

I still remember going into work the next day and everyone was in shock except for a couple of people that voted to leave

I was at Glastonbury.  To say it hit like a ton of bricks would be an understatement

[ml1dch]

33 minutes ago, tinker said:

We can have a better deal than we have now if we get around the table and be sensible. Free trade and movement  of people would be a start.

Maybe. But given the current arrangements are so imbalanced in favour of the EU, what are their incentives to correct that imbalance? It's not like we've been any less cooperative on security matters, just as it should be. They have broadly the same access to the UK market as they had before while having less competition from UK companies. What are we prepared to offer them to improve our situation?

Plus, they're not going to get on board with any massive changes until there is cross-party consensus in the UK. They're not going to risk another long-winded negotiation only to see it ripped up as soon as there is another Tory government.

Edited May 11, 2023 by ml1dch

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

In regards to leaving the EU even right-wing nutjobs like Orban haven't left the club which suggests  it probably wasn't a great idea.

Hungary is a pretty big net beneficiary of EU funds. Orban is not got to bit the had that feeds him. 

[ml1dch]

11 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Hungary is a pretty big net beneficiary of EU funds. Orban is not got to bit the had that feeds him. 

Yup. A better demonstration is that the likes of Le Pen and Meloni are all about "reforming from the inside" rather than any talk of leaving. 

[tinker]

4 hours ago, tinker said:

4 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Maybe. But given the current arrangements are so imbalanced in favour of the EU, what are their incentives to correct that imbalance? It's not like we've been any less cooperative on security matters, just as it should be. They have broadly the same access to the UK market as they had before while having less competition from UK companies. What are we prepared to offer them to improve our situation?

Plus, they're not going to get on board with any massive changes until there is cross-party consensus in the UK. They're not going to risk another long-winded negotiation only to see it ripped up as soon as there is another Tory government.

The world's changed since brexit, Russia started threatening Eastern Europe ( Russia  backing  brexit makes sense) The UK has a big part to play in Europe's security and history proves that.

 

[ml1dch]

12 minutes ago, tinker said:

 

Obviously. The UK provides exemplary security cooperation with the rest of Europe, and it will continue to do so. I say that in the post you quote.

That's the current situation. 

So what are we prepared to offer to make them want to change the current situation?

[tinker]

8 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Obviously. The UK provides exemplary security cooperation with the rest of Europe, and it will continue to do so. I say that in the post you quote.

That's the current situation. 

So what are we prepared to offer to make them want to change the current situation?

Russia has changed the game since the last sit down, Eastern European and a few Scandinavian countries are looking to the UK for security outside of the EU. France and Germany  have been shown as weak when it comes to Russia. Russian war ships are cruising around a defenceless Ireland. The UK has leverage, its not a subject that would be played out in the open but behind closed doors it will be on the table. 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-and-irish-forces-monitor-russian-warship-off-ireland/

Edited May 12, 2023 by tinker