The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[ml1dch]

I distinctly remember being told that this could, and would never happen.

 

[Genie]

I long for the day we have a PM with the balls to call Brexit out for the clusterf**k it has been.

The 2 options we have seem to be:

1) Continue to pretend Brexit is a great idea with many benefits. -> Downside is that enormous negative impact on the economy. The loss of many rights, higher costs, less freedom, worsening environmental conditions, weaker trade, more barriers etc etc etc

2) Call out Brexit for what it is, a massive act of self harm and we need to urgently revert -> Downside is it’ll upset the, mainly thickos, who are particularly defensive at being proved wrong. There is nothing else.

Why aren’t we doing it already????

[Xann]

 

[Chindie]

Who'd a thunk it?

[NurembergVillan]

Contains swears.

How could it not?!

[bickster]

YouGov polling

Quote

The wider public now think Britain was wrong to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%

Almost two years since Britain left the EU on 31 December 2020, YouGov data shows support for Brexit is at a record low, with only 32% of the British public saying it was right to vote to leave and 56% saying it was wrong to leave.

YouGov has been regularly asking the public whether they think it was right or wrong to have voted to leave the EU since shortly after the 2016 referendum. Early polling revealed that more people believed that Brexit was the right decision than not up until the 2017 general election.

Since then, with the exception of very brief periods in April 2020 and April 2021, public opinion has swung in the other direction and the latest results show the gap is at its largest yet, with those who think it was wrong to leave 24 points ahead of people saying it was right.

 Britons think it was the wrong decision to vote to leave the European Union by 56% to 32% [...]

[...]Following the 2017 general election the percentage of Brexiteers who believed voting to leave the EU was the right decision fell from 90% to around 80%, briefly rising to the high 80s after the withdrawal agreement was ratified in January 2020. However, since June 2021, that percentage has fallen from 88% down to a record low of 70%, while those who believe it to be the wrong thing to do has risen from 4% to an all-time high of 19%.  [...]

 

In other words it's nearly a 2:1 ratio of Britons who believe that leaving the EU was wrong and nearly 1 in 5 people who voted for Brexit think it was the wrong decision.

The Labour Party need to wise up, they are pandering to a shrinking demographic

[Genie]

13 minutes ago, bickster said:

YouGov polling

In other words it's nearly a 2:1 ratio of Britons who believe that leaving the EU was wrong and nearly 1 in 5 people who voted for Brexit think it was the wrong decision.

The Labour Party need to wise up, they are pandering to a shrinking demographic

I’m surprised all politicians still tippy toe around the subject. Anyone who STILL thinks it was a good idea must have shit in their eyes and ears.

[Xann]

Just think of all the money you've saved by not buying the things on the empty shelves.

[ml1dch]

I'm surprised they're capitulating this quickly. Thought it would take at least one election before we ended up here.

 

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I'm surprised they're capitulating this quickly. Thought it would take at least one election before we ended up here.

 

The Tories really have nothing to lose. If they announce they will do something like this then I think they’ll pick up a lot of votes. Not sure it’ll be enough but it’ll close the gap a lot imo.

[bickster]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

If they announce they will do something like this then I think they’ll pick up a lot of votes

Doubt it, they'll lose a ton of them too AND split the party, the ERG will have a complete meltdown

Mark Francois face will turn a hitherto unknown hue and we can have a Pole to name it. (I hope his name is Wawrzyniec or similar)

Herr Farago will reactivate

That will involve abiding by those pesky European rules

And by the way, if they are aiming at frictionless trade, then the Swiss model is the wrong one, the queues at the Swiss border are anything but frictionless

[ml1dch]

6 hours ago, bickster said:

Doubt it, they'll lose a ton of them too AND split the party, the ERG will have a complete meltdown

Mark Francois face will turn a hitherto unknown hue and we can have a Pole to name it. (I hope his name is Wawrzyniec or similar)

Herr Farago will reactivate

That will involve abiding by those pesky European rules

And by the way, if they are aiming at frictionless trade, then the Swiss model is the wrong one, the queues at the Swiss border are anything but frictionless

Yup. Also it would be a non-starter anyway. It would just be a return to the 2017-18 era of loudly talking about the things that we want without any consideration of what they might want.

However it's (a) positive that a move in the right direction is being considered (b) hilarious to watch the Brexit lunatics, already hurting after the Truss debacle, losing their minds over the potential betrayal.

(assuming The Times have it right, obvs)

[Genie]

51 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Yup. Also it would be a non-starter anyway. It would just be a return to the 2017-18 era of loudly talking about the things that we want without any consideration of what they might want.

However it's (a) positive that a move in the right direction is being considered (b) hilarious to watch the Brexit lunatics, already hurting after the Truss debacle, losing their minds over the potential betrayal.

(assuming The Times have it right, obvs)

I’m not sure about the bold bit. If we were to join an existing blueprint whether it be the full EU or Swiss, or Norway, or Canada type deals then we’d know exactly what we would be heading into. No need to speculate or lie about the potential benefits. We could write them as a list, very straight forward.

7 hours ago, bickster said:

Doubt it, they'll lose a ton of them too AND split the party, the ERG will have a complete meltdown

Mark Francois face will turn a hitherto unknown hue and we can have a Pole to name it. (I hope his name is Wawrzyniec or similar)

Herr Farago will reactivate

That will involve abiding by those pesky European rules

And by the way, if they are aiming at frictionless trade, then the Swiss model is the wrong one, the queues at the Swiss border are anything but frictionless

They currently only have about 20% support at the next election don’t they? They literally have little to lose. If 2/3 of people are pro-rejoin then it’s a big opportunity for them.

Farage and co have had their say and had their day. Nobody cares about their opinions anymore as they have been shown up for what they are. Everything positive they said would come true didn’t. Every problem they were told would happen was dismissed as fear mongering. Nigel could have developed a cure for cancer and nobody would believe him.

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

They currently only have about 20% support at the next election don’t they? They literally have little to lose

Becoming the 4th or 5th largest party in the HoC could be a tad humiliating. There's a lot still to lose

[Nicho]

On 15/11/2022 at 09:27, Genie said:

I long for the day we have a PM with the balls to call Brexit out for the clusterf**k it has been.

The 2 options we have seem to be:

1) Continue to pretend Brexit is a great idea with many benefits. -> Downside is that enormous negative impact on the economy. The loss of many rights, higher costs, less freedom, worsening environmental conditions, weaker trade, more barriers etc etc etc

2) Call out Brexit for what it is, a massive act of self harm and we need to urgently revert -> Downside is it’ll upset the, mainly thickos, who are particularly defensive at being proved wrong. There is nothing else.

Why aren’t we doing it already????

We arnt doing it because too many of the brexit voters are active voters in elections. 

It’s absolutely the right things to do, it’s also the think that will guarantee the loss of millions of votes.

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

Farage and co have had their say and had their day. Nobody cares about their opinions anymore as they have been shown up for what they are. Everything positive they said would come true didn’t. Every problem they were told would happen was dismissed as fear mongering. Nigel could have developed a cure for cancer and nobody would believe him.

There's enough of them out there to make a difference.

[tinker]

1 hour ago, Nicho said:

We arnt doing it because too many of the brexit voters are active voters in elections. 

It’s absolutely the right things to do, it’s also the think that will guarantee the loss of millions of votes.

 There's no defending Brexit, even Farage wouldn't be able to defend the mess it's created. No positives at all and loads of negatives, can you imagine that debate on QT? It would be a watershed moment for this cluster fucX. It was a close vote anyway, have it again and it would be a landslide. 

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I’m not sure about the bold bit. If we were to join an existing blueprint whether it be the full EU or Swiss, or Norway, or Canada type deals then we’d know exactly what we would be heading into. No need to speculate or lie about the potential benefits. We could write them as a list, very straight forward.

Even if the EU were willing to replicate the Swiss model again (which they're not, they've been trying to nudge the Swiss closer or further away with a less complicated arrangement for ages now), they're not talking about a facsimile of the Swiss - EU treaties. 

They're using it as shorthand for "we'll just have sector by sector deals for the stuff that we want and ignore the stuff that we don't want".

Which is pure, distilled 17-18 cakeism. 

[HKP90]

7 minutes ago, tinker said:

 There's no defending Brexit, even Farage wouldn't be able to defend the mess it's created. No positives at all and loads of negatives, can you imagine that debate on QT? It would be a watershed moment for this cluster fucX. It was a close vote anyway, have it again and it would be a landslide. 

Honestly I don't have much time for people who changed their mind on this topic following the utterly predictable damage caused to the country. I hope never to meet or speak to one in real life. 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

Even if the EU were willing to replicate the Swiss model again (which they're not, they've been trying to nudge the Swiss closer or further away with a less complicated arrangement for ages now), they're not talking about a facsimile of the Swiss - EU treaties. 

They're using it as shorthand for "we'll just have sector by sector deals for the stuff that we want and ignore the stuff that we don't want".

Which is pure, distilled 17-18 cakeism. 

I guess you could be right on that specific case. I still personally think that as the Tories are on track for a complete trouncing in ‘24 any pledge to get closer to the EU will gain them more than they lose.