The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

But stuff needed to drive in individual countries wont change, what Stefan has showed you is that none of this is from an EU level so all the paperwork now needed will be in addition to what is currently required.

It is also clear that most of that is needed to drive in this country anyway. I've never heard anyone complaining about driving abroad as it means they'll have to get a driving licence...

He knew that.

[Sam-AVFC]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

He knew that.

I suspect as much myself, but maybe I'm missing something.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

And you trust BJ to follow the law? He'll try to find a way around it, guaranteed. We have 29 days, that's it.

Obviously I don't trust him. . yes, I think they'll "try to find a way round" the law. But the point is that "No deal is the plan" can't be the plan, because "No Deal" as an objective isn't viable.

A plan needs to have a viable objective. That's where they're lacking (well that amongst many areas). An objective which is extremely probable to be not possible can't be part, rationally, of any end plan.

Now it could be a plan to pretend to want no deal, whilst knowing that is impossible - so that they can then say "look, we tried to leave when we promised, but the courts/Lib Dems/SNP/Labour/EU/whoever stopped us - blame them" when what they actually want is an excuse for their mess.

I think it goes like this - initial plan for Johnson is/was get a revision to the May deal and get that through parliament, using coercion of sorts on MPs and on the EU

If that fails, devise a way to blame everyone/anyone else for not doing what he promised - and that's this "no deal" bollex.

I think they're reaching the end point of their f***ery, now. 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by blandy
typos

[Genie]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Here we go

 

They just don't learn do they.

No deal for EU = inconvenient

No deal for the UK = catastrophic

[bickster]

 

[a m ole]

Abbott Raab PMQ show down, what a meeting of the minds.

[tonyh29]

36 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

But stuff needed to drive in individual countries wont change, what Stefan has showed you is that none of this is from an EU level so all the paperwork now needed will be in addition to what is currently required.

It is also clear that most of that is needed to drive in this country anyway. I've never heard anyone complaining about driving abroad as it means they'll have to get a driving licence...

The only addition is the Insurance green card and I'd imagine most insurance companies will do this via an online click button

 IDP's won' be  required for the majority EU countries if you are staying under 6 months   , apart from France ( quelle surprise )  and italy  ..even the example not given of Poland says you can have 185 days without an IDP

 

I was pointing out that it was no great hardship in the scheme of things  , but you knew that anyway

[Sam-AVFC]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

The only addition is the Insurance green card and I'd imagine most insurance companies will do this via an online click button

 IDP's won' be  required for the majority EU countries if you are staying under 6 months   , apart from France ( quelle surprise )  and italy  ..even the example not given of Poland says you can have 185 days without an IDP

 

I was pointing out that it was no great hardship in the scheme of things  , but you knew that anyway

By listing a load of things that you need to drive in this country as standard so have no relevance to additional actions to be taken when driving abroad.

So basically there was nothing on that list that is actually needed to drive in Europe (or abroad) specifically. You could have just said there is only one extra thing to fill out and it only takes 5 minutes so isn't a big burden. Instead you made a long list to make it look like a burdensome process currently then refused to acknowledge you were incorrect when called out on it by Stefan.

As for the last, I had no idea what you meant as I have only ever seen a 'defensive' stance of all government and pro-EU actions so I assume this is your starting point.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

Abbott Raab PMQ show down, what a meeting of the minds.

To be honest, for everyone concerned, it's deemed better that we know where these two are at all times or they will try to throw a hydrotherapy console through a Commons window again or similar.  They know they don't need to do this and are free to come and go as they please the pair of clowns.

[StefanAVFC]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I was pointing out that it was no great hardship in the scheme of things  , 

With all due respect, how can you say that? 

You're fine, your wife and kids are fine, whatever happens. 

Some people have real fears about their futures here and your blaise and dismissive attitude is frankly, disrespectful. 

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

With all due respect, how can you say that? 

You're fine, your wife and kids are fine, whatever happens. 

Some people have real fears about their futures here and your blaise and dismissive attitude is frankly, disrespectful. 

Who was taking about their futures ?  we were talking about driving aboard and how all you need is one insurance green card  ... my no hardship line was blatantly referencing that  ... the only one being disrespectful is the one making counter points based around a statement they didn't write ( living in Poland) and then misrepresenting what someone has written

[tonyh29]

19 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

By listing a load of things that you need to drive in this country as standard so have no relevance to additional actions to be taken when driving abroad.

So basically there was nothing on that list that is actually needed to drive in Europe (or abroad) specifically. You could have just said there is only one extra thing to fill out and it only takes 5 minutes so isn't a big burden. Instead you made a long list to make it look like a burdensome process currently then refused to acknowledge you were incorrect when called out on it by Stefan.

As for the last, I had no idea what you meant as I have only ever seen a 'defensive' stance of all government and pro-EU actions so I assume this is your starting point.

 Stefan didn't call me out , what he did was add the words " living here in Poland "  to his second post   ...I know VT is partisan but you could at least make at token effort

it was to point out that the only additional action you have to take is to get a "green card"  ..something that is apparently " a pain in the arse " 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by tonyh29

[blandy]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

Abbott Raab ... a meeting of the minds.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

 Stefan didn't call me out , what he did was add the words " living here in Poland "  to his second post   ...I know VT is partisan but you could at least make at token effort

 

Ok, I will.

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Let's go through this bit by bit. I'm talking about driving when living here (my situation in Poland), not travelling.

Important documents for driving in Europe

1. Full, valid driving licence and national insurance number - Nothing extra needed.
2. Proof of vehicle insurance - Nothing extra needed.
3. Proof of ID (passport) - Nothing extra needed.
4. V5C Certificate - Nothing extra needed.
5. Travel insurance documents - Nothing extra needed.
6. European Breakdown Cover policy number and documents - Nothing extra needed.
7. Before you travel ensure your vehicle’s tax and MOT are valid and up-to-date - Nothing extra needed.
8. Crit’air sticker (find out if you need one here) No idea

So basically out of this list, number 8 is a maybe.

1. Reflective jackets (there must be one for each passenger and be kept within the cabin of the car) In some countries, nothing to do with the EU. Irrelevant for Poland
2. Warning triangle (compulsory in most countries) - You've got me here but most cars are sold with it (mine was)
3. Headlamp beam deflectors (depending on your car, you’ll either need deflector stickers or have to adjust the beam manually) Most new cars have this
4. Breathalyser (compulsory in France) Irrelevant for Poland
5. Safety helmets are compulsory for riders and passengers of motorcyclists and moped users Irrelevant 
6. GB car sticker (if you don’t have a GB Euro number plate) Irrelevant for Poland
7. First aid kit (compulsory in Austria, France and Germany Irrelevant for Poland

If none of this is mandatory in Poland then it can't be an EU list.

So as nice as your list is, your point is bunkum

So the new list of steps to currently follow is:

1. Possibly a Crit'air sticker
2. Having a warning triangle.

Taking into account every car in this country has a warning trial anyway the list is actually:

1. Possibly a Crit'air sticker

Can you really not see how framing one sticker you may need to travel abroad specifically as that great bigt list might be a tad intellectually dishonest?

I'd also say that VT is left wing, but you wont find a more partisan poster than in the mirror. I've had good discussions with others I don't agree with like Mic09 because he is willing to say "I think X was inappropriate, but not enough to change my view that they are the only ones who will deliver Y which I believe is the most important. You just refuse to engage stuff like this at all or have a whatabout ready.

[tonyh29]

 

29 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Taking into account every car in this country has a warning trial anyway the list is actually:

try again , they are recommended but not compulsory

29 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

but you wont find a more partisan poster than in the mirror.

and i think at that point I'll duck out of this particular one  , this conversation clearly isn't going to get any better

Edited October 2, 2019 by tonyh29

[Sam-AVFC]

24 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

try again , they are recommended but not compulsory

and i think at that point I'll duck out of this particular one  , this conversation clearly isn't going to get any better

OK cool, keep the list at 2 then. Still not compulsory for the EU though, which was your point

Funnily enough your post completely supports the 2nd quote as you still didn't address my points or the fact the list was nothing like you made just picked on one tiny little thing (note I didn't say compulsory anyway) without acknowledging anything wrong in your posts.

I'm sure you would have found a reason not to respond regardless.

 

Edit - I appreciate the tone in my posts is a bit shitty, but it gets frustrating when you keep trying to genuinely engage and feel like it’s one sided!

Edited October 2, 2019 by Sam-AVFC

[StefanAVFC]

This transcends politics right now.I'm really worried about my future.

[desensitized43]

https://news.sky.com/story/pms-new-brexit-offer-calls-for-backstop-to-be-abolished-11825454

Quote

Boris Johnson has made a new Brexit offer to Brussels to replace the Irish backstop.

The prime minister is proposing to abolish the current backstop in the UK-EU Withdrawal Treaty, and to replace it with a mixture of checks at ports on the Irish Sea and away from the border in Ireland.

Been busy with work the last few days so haven't followed that closely.

Isn't this the thing that leaked 24 hours ago and he said absolutely wasn't the plan?

[tonyh29]

27 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

OK cool, keep the list at 2 then. Still not compulsory for the EU though, which was your point

Funnily enough your post completely supports the 2nd quote as you still didn't address my points or the fact the list was nothing like you made just picked on one tiny little thing (note I didn't say compulsory anyway) without acknowledging anything wrong in your posts.

I'm sure you would have found a reason not to respond regardless.

If you think that was my point , then respectfully i think you need to go back and start again (but ,  please don't , this conversation has already caused carnage !!  )

I've got 23,00+ posts its quite clear I'm not against responding  ....I tend to respond until something reaches a point where its reaching diminishing returns ( for the rest of the forum  as much as  anything) or things start to get a little too personal , this conversation  met both criteria ...

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by tonyh29

[Sam-AVFC]

2 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

https://news.sky.com/story/pms-new-brexit-offer-calls-for-backstop-to-be-abolished-11825454

Been busy with work the last few days so haven't followed that closely.

Isn't this the thing that leaked 24 hours ago and he said absolutely wasn't the plan?

No doubt it will be because the leak suggested 5 miles either side of the border, but the actual proposal is 4.9.

In this post truth world I'm probably giving him too much credit in my assumption they'll address the lie. Also not holding my breath for journalists to call it out.