The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[StefanAVFC]

 

[TheAuthority]

56 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

A politician speaking clearly, concisely and intelligently.

What is this witchcraft? Why can't we find these people in the UK or the US?

[Enda]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

The argument put forward by one of the Europe reporters (for Sky or the Beeb) was that choosing to sign up to these things as part of an international treaty is something that Varadkar would not want to be seen to be doing. Having to do it (until some sort of agreement is concluded) because the UK have chosen to leave the EU and haven't accepted the negotiated WA (however bad it was) would be a lot easier 'optics'-wise.

It's not even optics. NI is part of your territory so of course you can put border checks up there if you insist.

We'll just never agree to it and are more likely to negotiate borders away if we play hardball.

What's largely been ignored by the Brexiteers is the WA is just the first step. The second step is a deal about a permanent relationship and the fundamental problems about the backstop etc are still there. No Deal is just about where you're start the negotiating position in. It will look quite different when the DUP get an absolute bollicking from the NI electorate.

[chrisp65]

15 minutes ago, Enda said:

 It will look quite different when the DUP get an absolute bollicking from the NI electorate.

What seats can you see them losing?

Belfast North and South look like thin majorities, the others aren’t exactly close.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Isn't it an option for the UK to remain in the single market but not in the EU? Similar to Norway. 

At least this way when the European debt crisis rears its ugly head again and the EU begins to implode we’ll be in a better position. 

[snowychap]

18 minutes ago, Enda said:

We'll just never agree to it

In the event of no agreement being reached and the UK leaving the single market and customs union, how does the EU protect the integrity of the single market and Ireland's place in it?

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Isn't it an option for the UK to remain in the single market but not in the EU? Similar to Norway. 

At least this way when the European debt crisis rears its ugly head again and the EU begins to implode we’ll be in a better position. 

Yes, there is an option to keep paying membership, obey all the rules and decline to be involved in decision making.

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Isn't it an option for the UK to remain in the single market but not in the EU? Similar to Norway. 

At least this way when the European debt crisis rears its ugly head again and the EU begins to implode we’ll be in a better position. 

The only possible reason to do that is to con Brexiteers that we've left, wait for enough them to die and then ask for our seat at the table back

[Enda]

6 minutes ago, snowychap said:

In the event of no agreement being reached and the UK leaving the single market and customs union, how does the EU protect the integrity of the single market and Ireland's place in it?

A border. But that's as a consequence of the UK's rights to do whatever it wants on its own territory, not an agreement.

12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

What seats can you see them losing?

Belfast North and South look like thin majorities, the others aren’t exactly close.

They'll lose 5ish MLAs. Emma Little-Peabrain will haemorrage votes next GE. FPTP will be her downfall.

[snowychap]

Just now, Enda said:

A border. But that's as a consequence of the UK's rights to do whatever it wants on its own territory, not an agreement.

Well, indeed.

I'm sorry but we must have been talking at crossed purposes in the previous posts as I thought that's what I'd said originally and I thought you were disagreeing (which it seems you weren't). 

[chrisp65]

10 minutes ago, Enda said:

A border. But that's as a consequence of the UK's rights to do whatever it wants on its own territory, not an agreement.

They'll lose 5ish MLAs. Emma Little-Peabrain will haemorrage votes next GE. FPTP will be her downfall.

Yep, she’s Belfast South, one of the two I mentioned.

Not sure losing 5 MLA’s would matter too much at present?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a supporter, I just don’t see many people changing their mind on them and voting for someone else. There’s me and my vast in depth knowledge of NI politics. 

[Enda]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

Well, indeed.

I'm sorry but we must have been talking at crossed purposes in the previous posts as I thought that's what I'd said originally and I thought you were disagreeing (which it seems you weren't). 

The only difference is I disagree with Sky News' assertion that it's "optics". The British media have a terrible habit of disparaging legitimate Irish complaints as mere political games. The finest example was Iain Duncan Smith saying Varadkar was only playing hardball on the border because Ireland's Presidential election was forthcoming.  "Showboating", is what he said. Watch it: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/british-mp-iain-duncan-smith-the-presidential-election-is-coming-up-1.3310792 But Varadkar's party, Fine Gael, was not participating in that election.Then he says Fine Gael, which is a centre-right party, was afraid of losing votes to Sinn Fein, who are very solidly left. "Showboating". Nonsense. So I reject Sky News' claim that Ireland's concerned about "optics" here, it's disparaging of the real problems at play.

[Enda]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yep, she’s Belfast South, one of the two I mentioned.

Not sure losing 5 MLA’s would matter too much at present?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a supporter, I just don’t see many people changing their mind on them and voting for someone else. There’s me and my vast in depth knowledge of NI politics. 

Fair question. Under the GFA, the British Secretary for NI has a legal requirement to hold a reunification vote when she forms an opinion that it might succeed. The DUP ceding the MLA majority to SF is an important step in that direction. The DUP currently have one seat more than SF. Five would be monumental.

[snowychap]

8 minutes ago, Enda said:

The only difference is I disagree with Sky News' assertion that it's "optics".

To be fair, that may have been my fault rather than the reporter as I was probably tailoring my response to the post to which I was responding (edit: and was trying to remember all of what he had said from earlier on).

I think he did put it across in a way that acknowledged it as a genuine problem and Varadkar's response to that problem rather than merely optics.

On the wider point of UK media, politicians' and the electorate's dismissal of Irish complaints, I don't disagree with what you say.

Edited October 3, 2019 by snowychap

[snowychap]

Those favours the US will do for us in a trade deal, eh?

 

[ml1dch]

19 minutes ago, Enda said:

Fair question. Under the GFA, the British Secretary for NI has a legal requirement to hold a reunification vote when she forms an opinion that it might succeed. 

He. It's Julian Smith now.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

The only possible reason to do that is to con Brexiteers that we've left, wait for enough them to die and then ask for our seat at the table back

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, there is an option to keep paying membership, obey all the rules and decline to be involved in decision making.

Well apparently UK pay £220 per head for membership compared to Norway’s £140 per head contribution. 

That’s quite a large difference. 

[chrisp65]

57 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Well apparently UK pay £220 per head for membership compared to Norway’s £140 per head contribution. 

That’s quite a large difference. 

It’s 0.6% of the tax you pay on your earnings, or to put it another way, less than you’re paying for Netflix.

Somebody earning £26,000 per year is paying £54 for EU membership. 

The £220 figure is to scare people that think we don’t have a rebate and none of that money is spent in the UK.

Edited October 3, 2019 by chrisp65
Your

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

It’s 0.6% of the tax you pay on your earnings, or to put it another way, less than your paying for Netflix.

Somebody earning £26,000 per year is paying £54 for EU membership. 

The £220 figure is to scare people that think we don’t have a rebate and none of that money is spent in the UK.

It’s still a lot more than Norway pay