HanoiVillan Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) EDIT: I suppose I ought to add some sort of comment to this. Hopefully 'oh do **** off' will suffice. Edited December 8, 2016 by HanoiVillan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 6 hours ago, darrenm said: "You lost. Get over it." yeah 17 million people voted for it so just shut up and watch your masters and betters in the Tory party find new ways to screw your pleb ass over to feather their own nests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator confirms Exclusive: Guy Verhofstadt has fast-tracked the plan and will include it in his mandate Jon Stone Political Correspondent @joncstone 2 hours ago 694 comments 2K Click to follow Indy Politics Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's chief negotiator Getty EU negotiators will offer British people the chance to individually opt-in and remain EU citizens as a proposal in Brexit negotiations, the European Parliament’s chief negotiator has confirmed. The plan, first revealed in its early stages by The Independent last month, was being considered as a long-term aim by the European Parliament – but has now been fast-tracked to the negotiating table by Guy Verhofstadt, who is in charge of thrashing out a post-Brexit deal. Mr Verhofstadt said the “very important” proposal had “captured the imagination and hopes” of many British people who wished to retain their rights as EU citizens and would be in his negotiating mandate. READ MORE EU considers plan to let Brits opt-in to keep their EU citizenship The plan would see Brits offered individual “associate citizenship”, letting them keep free movement to live and work across the EU, as well as a vote in European Parliament elections. The proposal could potentially give Brits who live and work across borders a workaround to the disruption caused by the Leave vote – and young people looking to flee an increasingly isolated UK greater choice over where to move to. Depending on the approach taken by EU negotiators, the idea would likely be subject to approval by the British government. Mr Verhofstadt is drawing up a report with the European Parliament’s Committee on constitutional affairs about proposed long-term changes to the EU’s structure. The plan was originally proposed by liberal MP Charles Goerens for inclusion in the report, but will now bypass that process and be taken forward independently. 0:00 / 0:24 Brexit Secretary fails to keep a straight face about 'always intending' to publish Brexit plans The chief negotiator told the committee’s members: “We come to the vote of this important amendment 882, tabled by colleague Charles Goerens. It is an important amendment that has captured the imagination and hopes of many of the 48 per cent of Brits that have voted to remain in the EU. You will all have received many emails about this - and there has been many articles about this. READ MORE MPs don't actually want Article 50 vote, government lawyer claims The Supreme Court Brexit case only happened because of crowdfunding Brexit is going to hit small businesses hard Supreme Court continues hearing Brexit legal challenge “It has therefore become a very important issue that cannot await treaty change - as envisaged by Charles when he first tabled it. “I am therefore proposing to remove it from my report - which after all is concerned with Treaty change - and to include it in the negotiations we will have with the UK government. I as Brexit negotiator for the Parliament will ensure that it is included in the parliament’s negotiating mandate.” In a statement, Mr Goerens said: “Today I decided together with Guy Verhofstadt to withdraw my amendment on Associate EU citizenship. We realised that this has become a very important issue that cannot await treaty change – as was my intention when I first tabled my amendment – since this might take years. “Yesterday evening, the House of Commons decided by a majority of almost 400 to support Theresa Mays plan to trigger article 50 by the end of March 2017. Hence the prospect that this Article 50 will be invoked has become very real indeed. The offer could provide a solution to the disruption Brexit will cause British people who work or have family in other parts of the European Union (AFP/Getty Images) “The European Parliament will define its position on the Brexit agreement through a resolution during spring 2017. This seems to be the best opportunity to give Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt the possibility to enforce the Associate EU Citizenship. “I recognise this might come as a surprise to many of you, but please understand that the abovementioned procedure makes it much more likely for the Associate EU Citizenship to succeed than through an amendment.” Brexit Concerns 22show all Lib Dem MEP Catherine Bearder said: “The option of being able to retain EU citizenship offers a glimmer of hope for the millions of British people devastated by the referendum result. “The fact this proposal is going ahead shows there remains a huge amount of goodwill towards Britain, despite the actions of this Conservative Brexit government. “Everyone who supports this should write to MEPs and tell them how passionately they feel about maintaining their rights as EU citizens, including the ability to live, study and work abroad." In its original form the amendment suggested the provision of “European associate citizenship for those who feel and wish to be part of the European project but are nationals of a former Member State; offers these associate citizens the rights of freedom of movement and to reside on its territory as well as being represented in the Parliament through a vote in the European elections on the European lists”. Enter your state here Graphiq Though the British Government has been coy on what it wants Britain’s post-Brexit future to look like, it is likely that British citizens will lose the automatic right to live and work in the EU after Brexit. This is because Prime Minister Theresa May has made clear that she would like to restrict freedom of movement from EU countries to the UK, a policy that would likely be reciprocated by the EU for British citizens. Mr Verhofstadt is one of two chief negotiators representing different pillars of the European Union. He represents the Parliament, while former commissioner Michel Barnier represents the Commission. Belgian diplomat Didier Seeuws will coordinate the European Council’s negotiating position on behalf of the leaders of other EU states. The House of Commons this week approved a motion calling for Ms May to reveal the Government’s negotiating position on Brexit before triggering Article 50. It also locked in the timetable of triggering the treaty clause – and starting negotiations – before the end of March 2017. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Massively sensible approach. I'll be interested to see how it works and for me, it's more telling that this has come from the EU side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 In fairness, if a government official working on Brexit suggested this, they'd be crucified, it's about as close to having your cake and eating it as we could possibly get. I'm curious to see what the EU want in exchange, they're not going to let UK citizens opt in to EU citizenship without the UK offering something for EU citizens in exchange, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 If it was a yearly opt in for say (arbitrary figure) £50, I would do it and I imagine millions of others would too and EU gets millions of euros in return, Brexiteers happy. It seems too good to be true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) If that happens, and I'd be astounded if it did, any bets on how long it takes for 'the traitors list' to leak? And given who we've got in No.10, how long until anyone on that list is given as short a shrift in the rhetoric as immigrants? Edited December 9, 2016 by Chindie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Call me young, impressionable, naive but being European is my identity just as much as being British or english is. The opportunity to keep that part of me would be nice, and that's not even mentioning free movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted December 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Call me young, impressionable, naive but being European is my identity just as much as being British or english is. The opportunity to keep that part of me would be nice, and that's not even mentioning free movement. I know I bore on about the countries I've lived in, but I'm with you (although not young!) in that I see myself as European. I refer to myself as British when travelling. I rarely say I'm English. It feels too specific for me. Not sure why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would jump at that opportunity. Seems a bit having the cake and eating as mentioned, but **** it, I'd take it in a heartbeat. It's the kind of proposal that you can imagining outraging certain elements, even though I don't see how an individual choosing to retain associate membership "betrays" ( gosh what a childish word ) the UK. Those wanting brexit still get it. It would look awfully mean spirited and oppressive for people wanting to deny people an opportunity to exercise their own desires, despite it having no consequence for them themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Democracy, widely considered the best system still presents the possibility 49.99999999999999999% being disappointed. Giving everyone individually what they want sounds better to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Democracy, widely considered the best system still presents the possibility 49.99999999999999999% being disappointed. Giving everyone individually what they want sounds better to me. that's why having no super majority set before was stupid. less than a 2% swing is not a mandate for the harshest of brexits. imagine if it was 52-48 the other way and went full schengen/euro!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: imagine if it was 52-48 the other way and went full schengen/euro!? Never go full Schengen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: that's why having no super majority set before was stupid. less than a 2% swing is not a mandate for the harshest of brexits. imagine if it was 52-48 the other way and went full schengen/euro!? as none of the 48 would be unwashed people with beaded hair I suspect nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Imagine a solution that suits all sides. Those who want an open and inclusive Europe can have a pass for all the countries that constitute Europe. Those that want an enclave where no Europeans, or remain voters, or traitors (no substantive difference between these categories) could have their own area, with hard boundaries. St Kilda, for example. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) It's an interesting idea but several obvious problems spring to mind: 1) The EU is not yet a single country, so what entity does one become a citizen of? 2) Taxation. If the EU introduces direct taxation of citizens at some point (not unlikely) those would those need to paid in addition to UK taxes (presumably they would) and how would they be administered/collected? 3) Law. A British citizen who was also an "EU citizen" would wish to have ultimate recourse to the European Courts if involved in a legal dispute with the British State, but European law would have no effect within the UK. 4) Military service. Could a hyphenated Brit serve in the EU armed forces (the push for an EU army is underway)? Seems like a recipe for potential legal chaos, but if they can find a compromise (e.g. the status of EU citizen only has legal effect once an individual is leaves the territory of the UK) then maybe it's do-able - and would certainly mollify many of those Brits who are so attached to their EU identity. Edited December 10, 2016 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Japan's SoftBank Corp has decided to establish the global HQ of it's new $100 billion technology fund in London. Bloody Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Dig a little deeper. Don't just look at the headlines. Go on. It involves one of our most brilliant innovative tech companies of the last 30 odd years being bought out by a foreign buyers. The process being bankrolled by different country, terrified that the arse is going to fall out its existing massive investment in the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, Xann said: Dig a little deeper. Don't just look at the headlines. Go on. It involves one of our most brilliant innovative tech companies of the last 30 odd years being bought out by a foreign buyers. The process being bankrolled by different country, terrified that the arse is going to fall out its existing massive investment in the UK. SoftBank bought out ARM Holdings (because the shareholders were happy to sell) in June/July time and Saudi is in a JV with SoftBank for the tech fund. So what exactly are they terrified of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Awol said: So what exactly are they terrified of? You can ponder on that whilst I go to Hamleys, I've got half a dozen presents to buy. Wish me luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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