The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

It's probably not worth reminding you that the government that pledged to implement the decision is no longer the government calling the shots.

That would've been a good put down if we had a different Government, but we don't. A new PM and Cabinet yes, but until or unless there is a General Election it is the same Government. *awaits meme of Trigger's broom*

27 minutes ago, peterms said:

There's quite a difference between a pledge from a politician, and what was actually passed by Parliament.  If it was desired to make the referendum binding, then the way to do that was via the legislation setting it up.  It was specifically decided not to do so, and Cameron's comment does not make it otherwise.

I'm not contesting the legal position Peter, or the fact Parliament has the absolute legal right to ignore the result -should it wish to destroy all faith in the democratic institutions of the UK, the office of Prime Minster, spark massive civil unrest, and unleash a wave of populism that would have polite society heading for the hills. 

 

[StefanAVFC]

It isn't ignoring the result though. Brexit will go ahead.

But it's undemocratic to not put the plan to the elected commons to debate before enacting A50. I don't see how that can be argued.

Coming out of the EU is a permanent thing. It will affect future governments and future mps. Therefore elected MPs from all parties should get a say.

Edited December 7, 2016 by StefanAVFC

[Awol]

15 minutes ago, peterms said:

Also worth pointing out that "We shall implement what you decide" does absolutely nothing to clarify anything about timescales, conditions, what exactly we would be leaving and what we would continue to be part of, or pay in to, or choose to be subject to.  It's all these things which people are quite rightly demanding to know about, because no clear and comprehensible position was put forward on any of this, and still hasn't been.

To roll these things up and call them a negotiating position which must be kept secret for fear of strengthening the EU countries we seek to negotiate with, is laughable.  The very start of a negotiation is to outline what you want.

The fear of doing so is nothing to do with weakening our position (if it could possible be weakened any more than by serving A50), and everything to do with realising that there is no proposition, no combination of outcomes, that will satisfy even a majority of the leave camp, never mind a majority of the country.  It's an attempt to hold together the warring wings of the tory party, while the government stumbles from one fiasco to another, hoping that something will turn up.  No strategy, no vision, no direction, no clue.

Leaving the EU was the question on the paper and the big beasts on both sides agreed during the campaign that meant leaving the single market. 

The plan has already been stated numerous times but many people are simply ignoring it and repeating "there is no plan" at ever greater volume.

In summary: secure the best possible access to the single market while at the same time removing the UK from ECJ jurisdiction. 

As Osborne and Cameron and Johnson and Gove all stated that means leaving the single market. How that is achieved and what we are prepared to concede in terms of immigration controls, payments into the EU budget et al. are the areas up for negotiation, along with the various other areas of cooperation.

Labelling the choice on the ballot paper as "hard Brexit" is a device by Remainers to try and water down the outcome people voted for - imo.  

[ml1dch]

7 minutes ago, Awol said:

That would've been a good put down if we had a different Government, but we don't. A new PM and Cabinet yes, but until or unless there is a General Election it is the same Government. *awaits meme of Trigger's broom*. 

 

I'm not really sure what that meme is, but the Prime Minister disagrees with you. Or at least her speech of July 13th suggests does when she said  "I have just been to Buckingham Palace, where Her Majesty The Queen has asked me to form a new government".

 

 

[Awol]

3 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I'm not really sure what that meme is, but the Prime Minister disagrees with you. Or at least her speech of July 13th suggests does when she said  "I have just been to Buckingham Palace, where Her Majesty The Queen has asked me to form a new government".

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Awol said:

Thanks for the Express jibe, but that aside even Lord Pannick had said it's meaningless.

It's a political device designed to embarrass and pressurise Remain supporting MP's, nothing more. 

You're right, that was unfair of me. I had just read the stupid thing over my bacon sandwich and it was much on my mind. 

However, I'm sorry, I still don't believe that Brexit supporters will be calling the vote 'meaningless' tomorrow morning. If I can recall correctly, the Express's headline was 'Finally! Put Up or Shut Up Time!' or a close variant thereof. 

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, Awol said:

*awaits meme of Trigger's broom*

[mjmooney]

[mockingbird_franklin]

27 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

shhhh, don't confuse the issue with truths  17 million people voted leave so nothing else matters, certainly not the 16 million who voted to remain ( and no i wasn't one of them), or the  many millions who didn't vote for whatever reason. I personally have no problem with leaving the EU, probably no less a problem than if we stayed, but then being a libertarian, i don't see my interests being any more served by an authoritarian extremist government that is willing to impose draconian spying measures like the snoopers charter on us than an unelected european commission of which i'm no fan of., however there were benefits of being part of the club as well as many negatives, Unfortunately i have a huge problem having the biggest load of self serving clearings in the woods ever to form a government thinking they have the right to implement whatever it is they want onto the rest of the country and bypass constitutional process' to do so. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by mockingbird_franklin

[Awol]

8 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

You're proving a point that isn't being disputed.

The point is the Prime Minister and leader of the Remain campaign committed the Government to implement the result of the referendum, did he not?  

As the government has a majority in Parliament that shouldn't be a problem, but if the Remain campaign disagreed with him it's surprising not a single objection to his promise was raised prior to the vote.

Perhaps that's because they assumed they'd win.

[Xann]

40 minutes ago, mockingbird_franklin said:

... i have a huge problem having the biggest load of self serving clearings in the woods ever to form a government thinking they have the right to implement whatever it is they want onto the rest of the country and bypass constitutional process' to do so. 

I'd rather the staff at the local Asda were in charge of negotiations.

[Xann]

Entirely predictably.

Quote

 

Some major banks are in advanced stages of planning to shift some operations from London to Paris, France's leading financial regulator has told the BBC.

Benoit de Juvigny said that "large international banks" have undertaken the due diligence needed to set up a subsidiary in the French capital.

He also told Newsnight that "many other companies" had lodged informal inquiries about moving post-Brexit.

He expects similar talks to be going on in Europe's other financial centres.

Authorities in Frankfurt, Luxembourg and Amsterdam have said they would welcome banks moving operations from London for when the UK leaves the European Union.

 

BBC

So what happens here. Do they go, or will the Tories bend over double and give them a bloated porky deal to stay?

Oink Oink!

 

[StefanAVFC]

ANTI-BRITISH ELITES HOW DARE THEY

or something

[Davkaus]

Our finance industry moving to France? I guess it'll be a red white and blue Brexit after all.  

[StefanAVFC]

Pffft we don't need the finance industry. They don't do anything for GOOD, HARD-WORKING BRITISH PEOPLE anyway.

In fact, I hope they do leave. We need less LIBERAL ELITES looking down on us HARD-WORKING BRITS from their IVORY TOWERS.

[Chindie]

The French couldn't possibly learn banking as well as London does.

[StefanAVFC]

What do these ELITE bankers do for us anyway?

**** them.

[Chindie]

Of course the banks could be/are (delete as appropriate for cynicism/'Remainer' status) just bluffing to feather their own nest with the government and get a nice Nissan deal of their own. 

[Awol]

1 hour ago, Xann said:

Entirely predictably.

BBC

So what happens here. Do they go, or will the Tories bend over double and give them a bloated porky deal to stay?

Oink Oink!

 

The article doesn't claim they are leaving London, it's called business continuity planning!

Setting up a subsidiary office with a slack handful of bankers in Paris (or anywhere within the EU) overcomes the passporting issue, should it arise as a result of Brexit. 

 

 

[darrenm]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Pffft we don't need the finance industry. They don't do anything for GOOD, HARD-WORKING BRITISH PEOPLE anyway.

In fact, I hope they do leave. We need less LIBERAL ELITES looking down on us HARD-WORKING BRITS from their IVORY TOWERS.

"You lost. Get over it."