The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[TheAuthority]

14 hours ago, blandy said:

I think there's an element of accuracy in that interpretation, but only an element.

Clause 4 is an interesting one, because it used to be about common ownership of the means of production distribution and sale, or something along those lines - i.e. the state must own everything and run it, whereas Blair changed it to some sort of fluffy words about everyone having a share of wealth and opportunity.

 The old version was completely bonkers for the modern world, and the newer version was a sort of over-rideable "mission statement" of the sort that might be adopted by a photocopier company being "passionate" about scanning. One was a historic legacy and handicap, the other a load of easily ignored waffle.

Blair and Brown started off and were too timid I ditching Thatcherite type policies that they inherited. They did great on things like 3rd world debt relief, but ran scared of the tory accusation, always made of financial recklessness - they used PFI to keep "public debt" off the ledger, as the tories had done. They should have scrapped it. They were (IMO) right to turn away from the very old labour "nationalise everything" philosophy.

From a person in the street viewpoint, a heck of a lot got a heck of a lot better under Blair Brown, for a long period. His approach to Iraq was ruinous and appalling. The handling of the crash was OK, Darling was (IMO) on exactly the right lines with is response, too.

Blairism, was pretty much self-defined as "the third way" wasn't it  - neither Tory style, nor old Labour style, and while people can say it was too tory, or whatever, it wasn't that far off in getting results in a lot of areas, in many it worked. Key areas of society improved enormously.

Blairs flaws, like pretty much all leaders were personal, not ideological - his (as you say) slavish lap-dog approach to Bush, and cowardice re-Murdoch. His "God" thing and his actions re Iraq which were just mendacious and deceptive.

I agree most Corbynites want to kind of erase anything and everything that Blair ever did - like Trump with Obama, and it's a massive mistake. They define themselves far too much by what they are not and who they are not, and not nearly enough by what they ought to be and how they ought to behave. It poisons their approach to a whole range of problems. But they also hold a range of views and ideas and prejudices which are not only Corbynite v Blairism, but Corbynite v The world as it is. Bunker mentality thrashing out at all kinds.

Er, Brexit, not going well is it? to stay on topic.

If you haven't already, you may enjoy this Thatcher & Sons. An interesting take on British politics 1979 - 2010.

[Seat68]

2 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

I read a biography of Blair which interviewed his old House-master at Fettes College (often described as the Scottish Eton*)

I'm paraphrasing as it's been a number of years since I read it, but it really stuck with me. Very telling that someone who knew him as a child/young adult would feel this was important to say.

*For reference here is a picture of Fettes. I bet many Socialist roots are formed in places that look like this........

Unlike Adams Grammar. My dad a tory went there and Corbyn also did. Some of us from that neck of the woods as kids might say we never met any one decent person that went to that school. 

[Seat68]

2 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

I read a biography of Blair which interviewed his old House-master at Fettes College (often described as the Scottish Eton*)

I'm paraphrasing as it's been a number of years since I read it, but it really stuck with me. Very telling that someone who knew him as a child/young adult would feel this was important to say.

*For reference here is a picture of Fettes. I bet many Socialist roots are formed in places that look like this........

Unlike Adams Grammar. My dad a tory went there and Corbyn also did. Some of us from that neck of the woods as kids might say we never met any one decent person that went to that school. 

[ml1dch]

3 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

I read a biography of Blair which interviewed his old House-master at Fettes College (often described as the Scottish Eton*)

I'm paraphrasing as it's been a number of years since I read it, but it really stuck with me. Very telling that someone who knew him as a child/young adult would feel this was important to say.

*For reference here is a picture of Fettes. I bet many Socialist roots are formed in places that look like this........

Do you think this place did a capable job of forming Tony Benn's socialist roots?

[blandy]

3 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

If you haven't already, you may enjoy this Thatcher & Sons. An interesting take on British politics 1979 - 2010.

Thanks, but no thanks. I don’t like the author and certainly don’t like the main subject

[chrisp65]

I’d just have to put my hand up and say I’m ok with the school people have been to. Most kids don’t get to choose.

It’s what you do with the skills you were given there that’s more important. You don’t have to have dirty fingernails and your brother’s old coat to be one of the good guys. I know plenty that went to Barry Boys’ Comp and turned out to be wrong un’s.

[HanoiVillan]

7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I know plenty that went to Barry Boys’ Comp and turned out to be wrong un’s.

Took me three readings before that didn't say 'Barry's Boy Camp' 

Edited September 9, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[chrisp65]

45 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Took me three readings before that didn't say 'Barry's Boy Camp' 

Barry’s Boy Camp for Camp Barry Boys was more of an after school thing.

[Mark Albrighton]

5 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

If you haven't already, you may enjoy this Thatcher & Sons. An interesting take on British politics 1979 - 2010.

Worst Reservoir Dogs sequel ever. 

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Worst Reservoir Dogs prequel ever. 

FTFY

[snowychap]

5 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

*For reference here is a picture of Fettes. I bet many Socialist roots are formed in places that look like this........

That's piss poor.

I've never been to Haileybury and don't know what it looks like but I imagine it's not particularly modest.

[blandy]

4 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I’d just have to put my hand up and say I’m ok with the school people have been to. Most kids don’t get to choose.

It’s what you do with the skills you were given there that’s more important. You don’t have to have dirty fingernails and your brother’s old coat to be one of the good guys.

Perhaps there's another aspect too?. What I mean is that the type of kids that went to these private fee paying posh schools - Johnson, Cameron Corbyn, Seamus Milne, Blair etc.  - they all form their views from a perspective of privelege.

The ones that lean left sort of draw up their socialism from a theoretical viewpoint, sitting up on high deciding what the poor people need done to, or for, them.  With Corbyn for example I suspect it's a reason for his South American communist revolutionary admiration, ditto his reluctance to criticise Russia at all. It's just theory for him. Like Millionaire John Lennon "imagining" no possessions. He seems to have stuck to his schoolboy/student political views, unchanged for the past 50 years.

[bickster]

If any further proof were needed that Brexit is wrong, here it is.

 

[Designer1]

If there's one **** phrase that really **** me off in regard to Brexit it's 'Just get on with it...'

 

[BOF]

 

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

If there's one **** phrase that really **** me off in regard to Brexit it's 'Just get on with it...'

 

Always said by people who want to leave and really don't understand the issues (or idiotic politicians)

[BOF]

 

[imavillan]

Just get on with it 

[Wainy316]

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

4 hours ago, BOF said:

 

The Greek goddess Athena stopped things getting worse after the Roman god Hercules killed his children?