bickster Posted September 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Mic09 said: Do you have any stats or research to back this up? I guess it would be an interesting thing to read up on. EDit: there is also this which is related but not entirely connected to your enquiry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: Morally right of course. Who's morals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: This was a really shitty thing to say to someone by the way. So what if he is? So what if I am? Yeah sorry just got riled by ‘your planet sounds nice’ because I had different opinion. No offence intended and apologises if any caused. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Some people become wealthy by 'working their asses off', others inherit incredible amounts of wealth and connections which makes it all the more easier, others are simply accidents of birth and inherit wealth and do nothing to generate more, others are in the right place at the right time and rely on a lot of luck. Bottom line is that a lot wealthy people are not there by merit alone. Which is why I clearly said ‘in my experience’. Of course a lot of people will inherit wealth or get lucky. I was referring to people I specifically know that have done very well for themselves. It has all been from hard work. I probably should have been clearer in my original post so my own fault I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Ok people laughing at my posts and I have no idea why. Kinda feel like I’m being bullied now lol. Goodnight all. I hit the ‘laugh’ button on that one. I apologise of you feel it’s bullying, that certainly wasn’t my intention. Can’t speak for others, but I personally laughed because it’s a pretty naive thing to say. There are self made people out there, loads of them in fact. People that have worked their way out out of poverty, built business’ etc etc. There are however an absolute megaf**kton of people who have inherited their wealth, or built that wealth by exploiting people less fortunate than themselves. As @cyrusr has pointed out, our country is being run by people who fit that description. It’s nothing to do with being a ‘leftie’, I am a believer in and supporter of capitalism, but things need a bit of a re-set and imo it’s a real sorry state of affairs when working/middle class people are being had over by this lot. Not just had over, but actually believing they are working in their interests too. Utter madness. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, bickster said: EDit: there is also this which is related but not entirely connected to your enquiry They say that if you don't vote Labour when you're 20 you've got no heart, if you don't vote Tory when you're 40 you've got no brain. Those graphs seem to back up that sort of thought process among the population. I suspect that it would be the same for remain v leave too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 2 hours ago, cyrusr said: Not sure this explains other views, but whilst that may be true for some, it is certainly of true for all. Inherited wealth is by far the biggest problem and creates a sense of entitlement. Indeed some of the most prominent figures in the Brexit argument are good examples of this. Ok, this information from Wikipedia, so take with a pinch of salt, however provides decent summaries of their backgrounds: - Boris Johnson - son of upper middle class family. Raised by his mother and au pairs when he was younger, went to Eton College and Oxford University. Through family connections he obtained a job in the Times. Jacob Rees-Mogg - son of former editor of the Times newspaper, he was mainly raised by a nanny who now raises his own children. Had his first shares in a company when he was 10 years old, he went to Eton and Oxford as well. Nigel Farage - father of a stockbroker, attended Dulwich College (independent fee paying school), an early admirer of Enoch Powell following a visit to the school. Obtained a job in the city (following in his fathers footsteps). Dominic Cummings - attended Durham college (independent boarding school) and the Oxford University. Son of oil rig manager and special needs teacher, true, so probably the weakest of the points. However then of course you have Donald Trump, who is the prime example of entitled and borne out of family wealth (along with Clinton, Kennedy, Bush etc as well). Lost more money than he has made, he has zero concept of what a hard days work is like. So whilst there are many rich people who who worked to earn their money, there are many that haven’t. Unfortunately some of those are dictating how we leave the EU. To be fair even those 4 would have had to work hard to get where they are today, albeit they had all the chances and opportunities afforded to them because of their background. They could have easily just enjoyed their inherited wealth instead and stayed out of politics or not bothered with higher levels of education (doing us all a favour in the process). I know where you are coming from though mate. Getting back on topic of Brexit. What’s the latest? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What’s the latest? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, bickster said: Who's morals? The individual that made the money. If it was morally right then what’s up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 7, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: This was a really shitty thing to say to someone by the way. So what if he is? So what if I am? I thought it was genuinely a very sharp quip, as a response to "Wealthy people aren’t stupid or greedy" "Take it you're broke" was a witty retort relating to the alleged stupidity and greed. I would have been chuffed if I'd thought of it, and I'd hope that Xann would know I was kidding about, as he's easily smart enough to spot a quip. [edit] it seems it wasn't that clever. I will reset my opinion of Vive's wit to grade "F" [/edit] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, blandy said: I thought it was genuinely a very sharp quip, as a response to "Wealthy people aren’t stupid or greedy" "Take it you're broke" was a witty retort relating to the alleged stupidity and greed. I would have been chuffed if I'd thought of it, and I'd hope that Xann would know I was kidding about, as he's easily smart enough to spot a quip. [edit] it seems it wasn't that clever. I will reset my opinion of Vive's wit to grade "F" [/edit] Harsh! But fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: The individual that made the money. If it was morally right then what’s up with that? So you judge people by their own set of morals and not your own? Seems a little bonkers tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: To be fair even those 4 would have had to work hard to get where they are today, albeit they had all the chances and opportunities afforded to them because of their background. They could have easily just enjoyed their inherited wealth instead and stayed out of politics or not bothered with higher levels of education (doing us all a favour in the process). I know where you are coming from though mate. Getting back on topic of Brexit. What’s the latest? Fair point in that, I’m not sure how hard they would have had to work though. Dominic Cummings went off to Russia after uni according to the rest of the bio, but they others certainly don’t give the impression of hard work. It’s more the doors that will open for you. Donald Trump though is the prime example of doing very little work and yet somehow getting one of the most important jobs in the world. But yes back to brexit, very little happening up front. Noises that opposition will make sure Boris goes to Europe to ask for extension. The more he talks though without action, the worse he will look. Fine by me . If the Tory vote gets split in half because of the NF Party, it could devastate them completely, possibly beyond repair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post limpid Posted September 7, 2019 Administrator Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 14 hours ago, Mic09 said: I would add to that saying that that wealthy people usually create services and products (contradictory to some belief they do not swim in gold like duck mcscrooge), but they don't like paying tax. No one does. Any tax they pay is usually passed on to those less wealthy by increase of the costs of those services and products that they (wealthy people) create. Want to tax the rich more? Well, watch your prices go up. Wealthy people do not pay tax *like you and me do (edit) Trickle down economics? Probably the most discredited economic model ever proposed. It simply does not work. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: So you judge people by their own set of morals and not your own? Seems a little bonkers tbh What the hell are you on about. I’ve said if people are self made then fair play. You said what about if it’s morally wrong how they made their money. I agreed with you by saying of course it would need to be morally right how they made their money. I’ll give you an example . There is a local roofer who started off tatting around in a shitty van just doing odd jobs. He’s not got his own firm and is doing really well. He will probably be a millionaire one day . There is a local business man who started off a small loan company which is now a pretty big fish and will make him millions. Which one is morally right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 7, 2019 Administrator Share Posted September 7, 2019 Just now, Rugeley Villa said: What the hell are you on about. I’ve said if people are self made then fair play. You said what about if it’s morally wrong how they made their money. I agreed with you by saying of course it would need to be morally right how they made their money. I’ll give you an example . There is a local roofer who started off tatting around in a shitty van just doing odd jobs. He’s not got his own firm and is doing really well. He will probably be a millionaire one day . There is a local business man who started off a small loan company which is now a pretty big fish and will make him millions. Which one is morally right ? Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: What the hell are you on about. I’ve said if people are self made then fair play. You said what about if it’s morally wrong how they made their money. I agreed with you by saying of course it would need to be morally right how they made their money. I’ll give you an example . Read what you wrote in response to my question. I said who's morals, you replied the morals of the businessman, which I questioned as being bonkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Read what you wrote in response to my question. I said who's morals, you replied the morals of the businessman, which I questioned as being bonkers Wouldn’t the business man know that putting less fortunate people in debt is morally wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: Wouldn’t the business man know that putting less fortunate people in debt is morally wrong? Not by his morals, clearly. Who says it's morally wrong btw? Who decides this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, limpid said: Trickle down economics? Agreed, biggest lie ever, I think using the word "Trickle" sort of set the stall out long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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