Where did it start to go wrong?

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

The fact you mention Barry is a key factor for me, midfield and intelligent players.

The last five years has been a messy time in my mind. Look back or think about past Villa, we had much more purpose in midfield and in the wide attacking areas.  
We had players who understood the game and more importantly tactical roles. The same could be said for our managers.

When we lost Petrov I thought thank god, we're finally going to replace an ageing pro with a class act, how wrong I was.
His slow passing drove me mad, the fact he'd win free kicks all the time by drawing in the opposition really frustrated me. I also never got why his style was so negative but he knew something we didn't, he had to play that way to keep us in the game.
If you're not defensively brilliant be the smarter player, Petrov, Barry, Milner and Delph all were.

It's no surprise that Delph leaving hit us so hard but the failure of managers and the board, especially the board, to not identify a quality CDM is indicative of the clubs naivety. We'd been treading water with one quality midfielder and no balance, that luck was going to run out and boy has it.
The same can be said for many others positions and the loss of many younger talents.

I know I'm a broken record but Hutton is one of our most effective players because he's a pro, he understands how to change the game despite lacking the modern day skills to do so consistently. He'll play one twos and make a run forward, draw a defender out of position, stop when going offside and link play instead and he'll look forward and think, jesus, I better run inside because nobody is supporting. Remember he's a full back not the attacking threat.
More importantly he gets back because it's his job and the team need him.

Putting technical quality aside how many other starters have that sort of professional pride or confidence? Richards? Ayew? Gueye? Veretout? All new players, three new to the Premier League.

Then there's the club, I understand football is a business but Lerner planned for long term success with short term ambitions. What's he going to do with us now? We've spent the last 5 years cutting back, now we're going down....does he cut more to eeek out as much profit as possible? Or does he chance it next year making no real changes to the club? 

Where did it go wrong indeed.

[dakid007]

When we decided to try and compete in premier league with league 1 players. Sell our best players and replace them with inferior players

[Kingman]

All im interested in at the moment is Now, Two things!.. 

1, Is what are we going to do about it. 

2, And when we are going to do it! 

Saying that i wouldn't really believe a word that comes from either Fox or Lerner,

The words removed couldn't lie straight in bed!

Edited January 10, 2016 by Kingman

[tinker]

Lerner not appointing an experienced CEO when he brought the club, should have been the first thing he did. He still hasn't done it now despite him knowing we need one.

[VillaChris]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

Lerner not appointing an experienced CEO when he brought the club, should have been the first thing he did. He still hasn't done it now despite him knowing we need one.

We went through a few early on didn't we....Richard Fitzgerald and Michael Cunnah are names that spring to mind. Neither lasted long, whether that was because they couldn't work with MON or just weren't good enough ,I don't know. Can't remember who was the CEO between the period of 2008-10 but then Faulkner turned up...

[KHV]

It went wrong when Houllier became ill. Houllier should have been moved upstairs to DoF and McCallister should have been made manager as we did well at the end of that season. It took a while for the team to change the style of play and just as everyone got used to it we **** everybody out an appointed mr anti football himself Alex McLeish. The rest is history and it has been downhill ever since

[honest_bertie]

When Martin Oneil signed Hesky instead of someone like Bent.

Edited January 10, 2016 by honest_bertie

[StanBalaban]

Houllier may not have had a good season, even though we finished strongly enough and finished 9th (under GMac), but I believe he was onto something. He started getting under the skin of the likes of Gabby, wanted to improve the fitness levels, had Randy's trust and Randy's chequebook. He also had enough clout to attract some good players had he stayed. I think it's well documented that Cabaye would've be on his way for example.

You'd think that the ultimate plan would have been for Houllier to assemble his squad, clear out the likes of Gabby, Dunne, Collins, etc and have another season in charge before moving into a DoF role, thus handing the keys to a much younger man. Ironically, someone of the ilk of Remi Garde would have been perfect.

When Houllier wasn't able to continue, any sane owner and CEO would evolve the plan by changing the just personnel, and not the whole objective. Instead a virtual 180 was done and we hired McLeish. For me, this was the beginning of the end. With MON and GH, Randy had men that he trusted his money to, but no manager has had that since. 

Randy is a clueless owner, but Faulkner was the man he paid to know better. Whilst he was here, we scrapped the foundations that GH laid and so began the downward spiral that this team is about to complete.

[Mark Albrighton]

With sincere apologies to Billy Joel....

Webb forgets his red card, weak team in Europe, Stoke City, Milner/Ireland, Martin says goodbye.

Gerard waves at scousers, Makoun's fancy jumper, Young & Downing going, Alex says hi.

Lambert being dour, Bradford and Milwall, 8-0 to Chelsea, Tonev's "atomic" strike.

Benteke getting injured, St Mary's high line, no show at Wembley, Delph gets on his bike.

Gifting Leicester 3 points, Amavi injured, Rudy cannot score, falling through the trap door - I can't take it anymore!!!

We didn't start the fire, it's been a slow burner, mostly down to Lerner. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by Shropshire Lad

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, KHV said:

It went wrong when Houllier became ill. Houllier should have been moved upstairs to DoF and McCallister should have been made manager as we did well at the end of that season. It took a while for the team to change the style of play and just as everyone got used to it we **** everybody out an appointed mr anti football himself Alex McLeish. The rest is history and it has been downhill ever since

Nothing in Gary Mac's managerial record suggest he would've been a success as manager here.

However the club were correct in wanting to emulate Houllier's style and so the approach to Martinez made perfect sense without you rate Martinez as a manager or not.

The problem is once Martinez didn't want to know how on earth you go from him to McLeish rather than another continental appointment which we have now.

The time to appoint a Remi Garde type was straight after Houllier, not when we're knee deep in relegation trouble.

[mykeyb]

When both Fitzgerald and Cunnah left the board it was obvious that Lerner didn't want anyone interfering with his little vanity project.

[VillaChris]

16 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

With sincere apologies to Billy Joel....

Webb forgets his red card, weak team in Europe, Stoke City, Milner/Ireland, Martin says goodbye.

Gerard waves at scousers, Makoun's fancy jumper, Young & Downing going, Alex says hi.

Lambert being dour, Bradford and Milwall, 8-0 to Chelsea, Tonev's "atomic" strike.

Benteke getting injured, St Mary's high line, no show at Wembley, Delph gets on his bike.

Gifting Leicester 3 points, Amavi injured, Rudy cannot score, falling through the trap door - I can't take it anymore!!!

We didn't start the fire, it's been a slow burner, mostly down to Lerner. 

Double like button should be made for posts like this!

[Risso]

Buting Emile Heskey.  A typical unadventurous O'Neill signing of a limited player on a ridiculous contract.  We were ahead of Arsenal in 4th place.  They bought Arshavin, who scored 4 on his debut, and the rest is history.

[VillaJ100]

We spent way beyond our means just to compete on a par with/slightly better than Everton and Spurs. The war chest got us from 12th to 6th again. 

6-7 years later Everton and Spurs are doing the same if not better and we have imploded.

 

[Rugeley Villa]

15 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Nothing in Gary Mac's managerial record suggest he would've been a success as manager here.

However the club were correct in wanting to emulate Houllier's style and so the approach to Martinez made perfect sense without you rate Martinez as a manager or not.

The problem is once Martinez didn't want to know how on earth you go from him to McLeish rather than another continental appointment which we have now.

The time to appoint a Remi Garde type was straight after Houllier, not when we're knee deep in relegation trouble.

why didnt martinez want the job? villa is a tough job but i was baffled he turned us down.

[Xann]

The financial collapse triggered our downfall.

Randy's fun money evaporated.

Who started the collapse by trading toxic debt?

The same people that recently sold the post office cheap to the other suits - the vermin that are Goldman Sachs.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, StanBalaban said:

I can't help but think we'd be in a much better place had Houllier managed to see out his plan for the club.

No surprise we were better when he was away at the end. 

We should have hired Mark Hughes at that point. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, villanwesty88 said:

For me it is all Lerner's making. There have been too many people at the top of the club with no experience or previous success in their roles.

I actually don't think it is down to money the more I think about it. You look at Leicester, Bournemouth and others who have risen from no where and money is not what got them there. It is down to everyone in the club buying into a culture of success/vision from the boardroom, to the players, to the management and even to the people making the coffee on match days - everyone is in it together. This is what we have failed miserably at achieving. You could give the current structure £100m to spend and they wouldn't get it right - look at Manchester United wasting money too because there is clearly not something right.

So next absolutely crucial step is having people with experience working in the correct roles. CEO's who have been CEO's before, more people with football experience on the board, people who want to make the club a success (more fan representation like Exeter City - HH where are you?) and people who will build a culture here again. Then we can re-start. Until these key issues are addressed though I cannot see this wounded beast healing. 

Very good post

[StanBalaban]

25 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

When both Fitzgerald and Cunnah left the board it was obvious that Lerner didn't want anyone interfering with his little vanity project.

Could have done worse than keeping Steve Stride involved with the club. Lerner and Faulkner didn't know what they were doing, and there was no one within the Villa to tell them so.

[7392craig]

Since we've been so poor for so long, I've been avoiding anything Villa related lately. I've started to watch the first 20 minutes of games then gave up because it just infuriates and honestly upsets me. I've not even been watching MOTD or coming on Villatalk because it's just depressing hearing everybody talk about how shit we are. But I've been watching the Leicester/Tottenham game, and it really is enjoyable watching two good teams play great football. I honest forgot how much I love watching football, and how upsetting it is that I've been avoiding the team I love. Due to how hard it is to see how bad we actually are and how far we've fallen behind. On topic- I believe it was the day O'Neill left. That was the day the really bad decisions started, and the day Lerner showed he'd lost interest and there was no more money coming.