briny_ear Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) It certainly seems from the above comments that Sherwood is off the hook and no longer public enemy number 1/biggest fool that ever managed Aston Villa. Turns out it was the squad all along. Edited March 14, 2016 by briny_ear 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2016 Just now, Dr_Pangloss said: It's fair to say that there's been no improvement at all under Garde so far. I'm not saying he has done worse than Sherwood but he also hasn't done any better. Results wise, it's hard to disagree. I maintain we look a better side than we ever did under Sherwood in basic play. That doesn't change the fact we still aren't winning games, and we don't score and we concede silly goals. But I think the team now actually looks a bit more professional and bit more well drilled in other respects. I think that shows he has something about him. He has an idea of how to play, and he manages to get some of it out of the squad, but they simply can't do all of it. The few games, for me, where we had a bit of a run he managed to get closer to that plan and we did better. Then it fell apart and there's no recovery. He's the opposite to Sherwood, imo, who admitted he didn't really what he was doing and you could see it in the team, especially as the wheels fell off. His success seemed to be based on pure adrenaline, which works for a while but then putters out. I think the players liked him as a bit of a lad but it was never going to last, and his leaving combined with a different (in my view, long term better) personality and the team just being quite weak in many ways has lead to a malaise in the squad that's made the hole we can't get out of. A vicious circle. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Just now, Chindie said: Results wise, it's hard to disagree. I maintain we look a better side than we ever did under Sherwood in basic play. That doesn't change the fact we still aren't winning games, and we don't score and we concede silly goals. But I think the team now actually looks a bit more professional and bit more well drilled in other respects. I think that shows he has something about him. He has an idea of how to play, and he manages to get some of it out of the squad, but they simply can't do all of it. The few games, for me, where we had a bit of a run he managed to get closer to that plan and we did better. Then it fell apart and there's no recovery. He's the opposite to Sherwood, imo, who admitted he didn't really what he was doing and you could see it in the team, especially as the wheels fell off. His success seemed to be based on pure adrenaline, which works for a while but then putters out. I think the players liked him as a bit of a lad but it was never going to last, and his leaving combined with a different (in my view, long term better) personality and the team just being quite weak in many ways has lead to a malaise in the squad that's made the hole we can't get out of. A vicious circle. I honestly do not think we look better. In fact we're probably slightly worse going forward under Garde but only marginally better (not enough to matter) at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, briny_ear said: It certainly seems form the above comments that Sherwood is off the hook and no longer public enemy number 1/biggest fool that ever managed Aston Villa. Turns out it was the squad all along. No, he was a fool as well. The squad is bad, undeniably. I think Sherwood helped make it worse. Don't think that the squad excuses him. Anyway, this is a Garde thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, briny_ear said: It certainly seems form the above comments that Sherwood is off the hook and no longer public enemy number 1/biggest fool that ever managed Aston Villa. Turns out it was the squad all along. It looks that way. Not that I would have wanted Sherwood's Tottenham-lite vision for villa, but it does now seem that our transfer commitee's strategy was just so amateur. They took a major gamble in order to acquire players that they felt would be worth triple in a years time. If there were any sense in the boardroom that would never have been approved. Hopefully that will change with the likes of Bernstein. Oh yeah, and Remi, well he hasn't been given the tools really... Edited March 14, 2016 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 So the squad excuses Garde but not Sherwood and the team is doing virtually no better under Garde than under Sherwood but somehow it's better under Garde. I think I/m finally getting this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 my pretty much only pro-garde argument would be that we've been here before, we pointed the finger at the manager, got a new one, carried on being shit thats been rinsed and repeated for 4 managers over 5 years now, do we want that again? or do we actually want to start pointing fingers at the players who are letting us down over and over again? at the moment in my head we are going down and the media and the old boys club and the sheep amongst us will say its because of lerner, or because of garde, or because of the french players...the cherry on top of our misery, which is richards, sinclair, lescott and gabby's abject performances despite all earning £60k a week will be swept under the carpet we need massive changes at the club, its got to start with the players not with remi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2016 Just now, Dr_Pangloss said: I honestly do not think we look better. In fact we're probably slightly worse going forward under Garde but only marginally better (not enough to matter) at the back. Your prerogative. I disagree though. We look marginally worse going forward, I think, the back is better but undermined by never ending idiotic errors that I don't think you can tactically do much about (that get exacerbated whenever they happen by having the confidence go, every time), and the midfield looks better, a fair bit more composed and, well, professional. The forward play was bad anyway but Garde being less 'kitchen sink' in his approach makes look a little poorer than it already is. Saying that, we do make the odd decent chance, and then fluff it. We should have had about 3 yesterday, and thats with a team that is crap at creating chances. We're even worse at taking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted March 14, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So the squad excuses Garde but not Sherwood and the team is doing virtually no better under Garde than under Sherwood but somehow it's better under Garde. I think I/m finally getting this. Either I'm really bad at explaining things, or you're willfully misunderstanding. Squad = bad. Sherwood = make squad worse - Tactically stupid, unhinged. Take a look at the now famous gif of him flinging his arms around nonsensically apparently trying to give instructions to the squad. He didn't have the faintest idea what he was doing, admittedly so, as he just flailed around with the teamsheet desperately. He had no plan. Squad = Still bad Garde = Hamstrung by poor squad, but clearly has some tactical nous (yet still makes mistakes) and has a game plan, which has seen improvement in the standards of play but results are still bad. It's easier to support and have confidence in the bloke who looks like he in at least some way knows what he's doing, than the bloke who clearly, and admittedly, hadn't got a clue. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) What is Garde trying to achieve? He is not going to keep us up but still persists in picking players who are letting him down week after week. I would have introduced 3 or 4 of the youngsters and drop those who arent doing it and left the public to decide why that was. I said to some work colleagues that I couldnt see us winning another game between then and the end of the season, I would go one further and say I cannot see us getting a nother point such is the level of performances Garde is getting out of the squad. As someone else posted over the weekend not sacking him now or at the end of the season simply means having to sack him before christmas next season and then that would probably mean we get stuck down there like Wolves. Edited March 14, 2016 by mykeyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Chindie said: No, he was a fool as well. The squad is bad, undeniably. I think Sherwood helped make it worse. Don't think that the squad excuses him. Anyway, this is a Garde thread... Ok so does it excuse Garde then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Either I'm really bad at explaining things, or you're willfully misunderstanding. Squad = bad. Sherwood = make squad worse - Tactically stupid, unhinged. Take a look at the now famous gif of him flinging his arms around nonsensically apparently trying to give instructions to the squad. He didn't have the faintest idea what he was doing, admittedly so, as he just flailed around with the teamsheet desperately. He had no plan. Squad = Still bad Garde = Hamstrung by poor squad, but clearly has some tactical nous (yet still makes mistakes) and has a game plan, which has seen improvement in the standards of play but results are still bad. It's easier to support and have confidence in the bloke who looks like he in at least some way knows what he's doing, than the bloke who clearly, and admittedly, hadn't got a clue. I agree that he has a game plan, trouble is I dont think the game plan is seeing a massive improvement in the standards of play and if the results dont improve doesnt that suggest that maybe he needs to review the plan? For me he is in the same mould as Wenger at Arsenal, football has to be played his way and if the results arent there then thats tough because he isnt going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, mykeyb said: What is Garde trying to achieve? He is not going to keep us up but still persists in picking players who are letting him down week after week. I would have introduced 3 or 4 of the youngsters and drop those who arent doing it and left the public to decide why that was. I said to some work colleagues that I couldnt see us winning another game between then and the end of the season, I would go one further and say I cannot see us getting a nother point such is the level of performances Garde is getting out of the squad. As someone else posted over the weekend not sacking him now or at the end of the season simply means having to sack him before christmas next season and then that would probably mean we get stuck down there like Wolves. It's the one criticism I would have of Garde. There is little sense in persisting entirely with senior players at this point on the basis that they will somehow rescue the situation. The debut of Green at the weekend, from what I'm hearing, has shown that the kids can make an impact, and in some ways may not be as damaged as the senior players having not gone through the season that they have. Bringing in the Greens and the Lydons between now and the end of the season will probably also stand us in good stead next season when they're far more likely to feature on a regular or permanent basis. It would also give the fans something to cheer for and simultaneously take the more maligned players out of the firing line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 hour ago, briny_ear said: It certainly seems from the above comments that Sherwood is off the hook and no longer public enemy number 1/biggest fool that ever managed Aston Villa. Turns out it was the squad all along. In my book, Sherwood is partly culpable of assembling at least half of the squad last summer (13 signings?). Therefore he still ranks as a prize idiot, who was let loose with a sizeable transfer budget which was beyond his ability as a manager. However, Lerner and Fox are most culpable for letting a novice manager and transfer comittee loose with such a massive rebuild required in the first place. Garde has not managed to improve results either, but looking at our squad I struggle to see where the goals were supposed to come from. The signing of Gestede and Ayew were never going to get enough goals for us, and we went into the season light on proven quality up front. The defence is a shambolic organisation, made up of players who are seeing out their careers on one final pay day (Hutton/Lescott), and others who have been living the gravy train without playing over recent years (Richards). And the midfield is made up of players who simply aren't good enough. I agree with some here, that now is the time to kick some of these players into touch and give some of the kids a chance. I struggle to see that they could do much worse than the current lot, who have either given up the fight or didn't care in the first place. It might shock some of them into showing some professional pride at least, although I wouldn't hold my breath on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Completely agree with BOF. On Sunday, Newcastle v Sunderland (whatever happens) is a bad fixture for us. One of those in the 'catchable' positions above us is going to get points. Then when we get battered by Chelsea, it's Norwich v Newcastle so the same applies. I can understand that we are not mathematically down yet, but it's time to see what a few other youngsters have got. The 'experienced' players have failed too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 2 hours ago, briny_ear said: It certainly seems from the above comments that Sherwood is off the hook and no longer public enemy number 1/biggest fool that ever managed Aston Villa. Turns out it was the squad all along. You mean that squad that Sherwood brought in via the 3 amigos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) I seen instances in that game against Spurs that defied logic. International defenders floundering and out of position, midfielders featherweight.....not to mention the whole team not getting close to their opposite number.... It was benevolent. Spurs must have thought they were on a site seeing guide of Villa Park, as opposed to being in a match. Blame who you like.....its enough to make your eyes bleed. Edited March 14, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, TRO said: Spurs must have thought they were on a site seeing guide of Villa Park, as opposed to being in a match. Spurs mate of mine said they were well below par, looked tired and "had it not been for the free pass that is Aston Villa" they would probably not have won the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chindie said: Either I'm really bad at explaining things, or you're willfully misunderstanding. Squad = bad. Sherwood = make squad worse - Tactically stupid, unhinged. Take a look at the now famous gif of him flinging his arms around nonsensically apparently trying to give instructions to the squad. He didn't have the faintest idea what he was doing, admittedly so, as he just flailed around with the teamsheet desperately. He had no plan. Squad = Still bad Garde = Hamstrung by poor squad, but clearly has some tactical nous (yet still makes mistakes) and has a game plan, which has seen improvement in the standards of play but results are still bad. It's easier to support and have confidence in the bloke who looks like he in at least some way knows what he's doing, than the bloke who clearly, and admittedly, hadn't got a clue. OK, I'll just have to try and take some comfort from the fact, as we go down to relegation with some of the (if not simply the) worst records ever seen from a Villa squad in modern times, that our manager "in some way knows what he's doing". Let's hope the new guys who have been brought in to try and sort out the club will see a little more clearly that Garde is simply not the manager for Villa in our current state, however well he presents before and after the games. It's what happens during the 90 minutes that matters. Edited March 14, 2016 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 hour ago, rubberman said: Completely agree with BOF. On Sunday, Newcastle v Sunderland (whatever happens) is a bad fixture for us. One of those in the 'catchable' positions above us is going to get points. Then when we get battered by Chelsea, it's Norwich v Newcastle so the same applies. I can understand that we are not mathematically down yet, but it's time to see what a few other youngsters have got. The 'experienced' players have failed too many times. 'Catchable' positions. This team was never mentally or physically capable of catching anyone.....They have only ever been mathematically catchable. We were down before Remi Garde even got the job........not giving him a get out of jail card.....just my opinion of this sorry outfit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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