The Rémi Garde thread

[Stevo985]

Just now, andyh said:

But it shouldn't though, should it ?

A good manager would sit down with his young prospects and explain to them that they are being given a chance to prove themselves for next season.

A good manager would explain that they will make mistakes and may well be on the end of some thrashings.

But a good manager would also explain that they are not to blame for the situation we are in and will learn massively from playing,and (probably) making some mistakes, and its good preparation for next season.

A good manager would explain that fans will not be on their backs as long as they are seen to be trying and playing for the team and the club.

A good manager would do all these things, if he has faith in the youngsters that he thinks can make the step up.

 

 

There's a lot of assumptions there. A lot.

And none of them placate the fact that they'd get hammered every week.

Look. I want to see some youngsters as much as the next guy. I just don't agree with those people saying we should chuck a whole youth team out there and let them play. It would be a nightmare, for them more than us.

[BOF]

29 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

most of them are still the best we have in their respective positions.

That is kind of an assumption too though.  For example, we have a striker who thrives on crosses and we don't cross him the ball.  Green in half an hour put in more crosses than the rest of the team for the whole match.  That tells me we're not using them right or that at the very least there could be something in the reserves that has not been taken advantage of.  Joey Barton wrote a good piece the other day where he tried to objectively break down if there were any positives on the field during the Spurs game.  He was left slightly baffled at how we chose to use the resources at our disposal and he said nothing that was hyperbole or for effect.  We used a central striker on the left wing.  We left a striker up front who we didn't cross to (not helped by having the aforementioned striker in a crossing position).  He questioned our attacking fullbacks when we have neither the central defensive or midfield ability to cover them.  If we don't have anything in the U21s at this point in time which could come in and do a job then that's one shit academy.  But I don't think it is.  I just think that as I've said, Garde hasn't used it properly.  All IMHO of course.  The U21 cameos that have happened have only reinforced my view.

[dn1982]

1 hour ago, KHV said:

No Stevo, I genuinely do not think Garde has any redeemable qualities at all other than seeming like a nice bloke. I do not want him here, I do not trust him or his back room staff to get any performance from this team or any new potential team in the summer. I know you disagree with this and that's fine but for me he is not the man for this job or the man for next season in the championship. I don't rate him at all. That's how I feel about him and I think the troubles at the club have masked the fact that he really isn't very good.

Do you trust the players? Do you trust the next manager to realise that there's a lot of crap unmotivated players that need getting shot of before we can rebuild? You can saying people only want Garde because he seems a nice bloke and that's a load of crap. A nice bloke doesn't out his players for not having the right attitude and showing enough in training. He is fighting a relegation battle whilst trying to get a bunch of prima donnas to do the basics like show desire!!! There's a group of senior players that should be setting an example yet seem to be the ones always moaning!! Take Gabby for instance Houllier wanted rid years ago yet he keeps getting given chance after chance because we change managers we need to do something different and for me that's stick with Garde let him get rid of the crap and back him to get players in of the right attitude. You say he's one of the worst managers we've ever had but up until the Liverpool game we looked like we'd get back into the fight and in that one game it showed what's wrong with these players. No fight No desire No leaders No confidence. You can't coach any of those it has to come from the players! 

[mykeyb]

You know the job that Garde is doing that has some fans see some improvement in our performances and he should be allowed to continue next season.........the stats dont reflect it really.

Sherwood was in charge for 10 games, in that time we scored 10 and conceded 20, Garde in his 19 games has only scored 12 but conceded 37.

He doesnt know how to set us up to pose a threat, I was far from a Sherwood fan but he had us scoring more goals than Garde and to be honest the goals conceded per game is pretty much the same.

If we had carried on scoring an average of one a game you can bet we would be a lot closer to the pack above us. 

Simply not good enough even considering the tools available to him.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Wainy316 said:

We've missed Sanchez more than I think he's given credit for.

the only midfielder we have that doesnt allow teams walk through us as he has a cynical foul in him

[NeilS]

10 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

You know the job that Garde is doing that has some fans see some improvement in our performances and he should be allowed to continue next season.........the stats dont reflect it really.

Sherwood was in charge for 10 games, in that time we scored 10 and conceded 20, Garde in his 19 games has only scored 12 but conceded 37.

He doesnt know how to set us up to pose a threat, I was far from a Sherwood fan but he had us scoring more goals than Garde and to be honest the goals conceded per game is pretty much the same.

If we had carried on scoring an average of one a game you can bet we would be a lot closer to the pack above us. 

Simply not good enough even considering the tools available to him.

That may be true, but doesn't always tell the full story. I may be incorrect, but those first ten games of the season were viewed as a relatively easy start at the beginning of the season and a good opportunity for our new players to bed in and pick up some early points. The players were all fired up still at that point, and unfortunately we failed on building on the first match and went on a long run of defeats which hit the players confidence hard. The last five or so matches show me that the players have given up the ghost and are merely going through the motions now. I think the lack of new players in January more or less killed the remaining hope in the squad.

My opinion with regards to the goalscoring problems we have suffered, I still stand by my thoughts from that time that we have recruited extremely badly in the forward department last summer. Previous to this season we relied heavily on Benteke to score the goals. Without his goals in recent years we would already be playing in the Championship. I remember many clamouring to cash in on him last summer, and re-invest which we did to a degree. Unfortunately we took big risks on the goalscorers department. Gabby was given a new deal (he barely scores these days), Gestede has done well in the Championship for 1-2 seasons, but not in PL (big risk though moving up a level), Ayew who again represented a risk as he was stepping up a level and was not really a big goalscorer in his league, and Kozak who has struggled for previous two years with injury. One thing for certain is that we left ourselves well short on the goalscoring front, I guess the plan was for the rest of the team to weigh in with goals from midfield. I think goals have been sparse in that department as well.

I think Garde was looking to bring in a striker in Doumbia, but as we know that failed, so we have been stuck with what we got and the fight drained out of the team. Whether acquiring a new striker would have had any significant impact we will never know? It helped boost the team under Houllier, but we also had better supporting cast back then with Downing and Young supplying the strikers and weighing in with goals.

[TRO]

14 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

Well we had as light resurgence when Hutton got injured and then starting losing again once he was back.

I'm not saying it's Hutton's fault, but it's all Hutton's fault.

He was/is diabolical.....always out of position.

[Ingram85]

29 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

You know the job that Garde is doing that has some fans see some improvement in our performances and he should be allowed to continue next season.........the stats dont reflect it really.

Sherwood was in charge for 10 games, in that time we scored 10 and conceded 20, Garde in his 19 games has only scored 12 but conceded 37.

He doesnt know how to set us up to pose a threat, I was far from a Sherwood fan but he had us scoring more goals than Garde and to be honest the goals conceded per game is pretty much the same.

If we had carried on scoring an average of one a game you can bet we would be a lot closer to the pack above us. 

Simply not good enough even considering the tools available to him.

Yeah, completely (selectively) forgetting the fact that Sherwood had Benteke & Delph helping him with that goals scored stat and he replaced them with players who are seemingly allergic to scoring goals and left them for Garde to use.

[TRO]

Didn't Sherwood try to sign Cambiasso, but the board refused to pay wages to an old player?

now he had proved what a combative and creative individual he was last season, but we refused the manager the opportunity....that must have been a blow to sherwood, when you identify an enhancement and you are denied.

Very noble of them to refuse to pay high wages, but they can find them same wages, for shite.

Yet we can find big money and large wages for players who have very little other than a stat on a website.

I ask myself, was Sherwood in fact just as hampered as Garde.

Edited March 15, 2016 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, mykeyb said:

You know the job that Garde is doing that has some fans see some improvement in our performances and he should be allowed to continue next season.........the stats dont reflect it really.

Sherwood was in charge for 10 games, in that time we scored 10 and conceded 20, Garde in his 19 games has only scored 12 but conceded 37.

He doesnt know how to set us up to pose a threat, I was far from a Sherwood fan but he had us scoring more goals than Garde and to be honest the goals conceded per game is pretty much the same.

If we had carried on scoring an average of one a game you can bet we would be a lot closer to the pack above us. 

Simply not good enough even considering the tools available to him.

Its like saying who is the worst Jimmy Saville or Stuart ( thanks Briny) Hall

Edited March 15, 2016 by TRO

[NeilS]

15 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

Well we had as light resurgence when Hutton got injured and then starting losing again once he was back.

I'm not saying it's Hutton's fault, but it's all Hutton's fault.

Why we gave him a new deal when his contract was almost up I will never know? We spent 3 years with him in the bomb squad, he plays a handful of games and is rewarded with a new deal. The guy has never been that great a player, and now he has a nice new deal he isn't probably motivated to give his best for a team that tried to freeze him out, when in his mind he was in his prime years of his career.

I remember my gut feeling when reading the news of the new deal along with Gabby's new deal, and it was not good and were truely staggering in my mind.Those two deals epitomise everything about the running of this club over the last few years.

[Grasshopper]

I really dont get the stat comparisons people make between TS & RG

If I have 38 miles to run in a pack of "runners" I don't know, start the 1st mile well but then realise that my "runners" dont have what it takes to complete the 38 miles in a minimum set time.

after 10 miles the realisation that they are not good enough starts to become a heavy and heavier load to bear the longer things get drawn out.

Regardless if the "Leader" gets replaced or not, the fact that after 10 miles the "runners" are only going to get weighed down even more by every mile thereafter.

Unless you have some carriers (eg Gaby, Lescott, Richards....) who can set a good example you are doomed to fail with ever worsening results.

You really cant compare a squad who at the beginning aren't aware of their level but are going to suck it and see, to a squad that over time arrive at the point where they give up.

A snap shot of Leicester away loss and the then situation.

Compared to the Leicester home draw and the now (at that time) would suggest that RG did better, with a lot worse, than TS.

Crisp City/AVFC seems to be a marked point to set parameters for comparison.

They survived last season and will be in Europe next season (maybe even PL champions - quite remarkable and unbelievable - how happy Albrighton must be - how unhappy Veretout must be) 

We wont.

RG is a victim of other peoples circumstances. Why sack him with costs when we are not sure he would fail given a fair pack of cards?

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

That is kind of an assumption too though.  For example, we have a striker who thrives on crosses and we don't cross him the ball.  Green in half an hour put in more crosses than the rest of the team for the whole match.  That tells me we're not using them right or that at the very least there could be something in the reserves that has not been taken advantage of.  Joey Barton wrote a good piece the other day where he tried to objectively break down if there were any positives on the field during the Spurs game.  He was left slightly baffled at how we chose to use the resources at our disposal and he said nothing that was hyperbole or for effect.  We used a central striker on the left wing.  We left a striker up front who we didn't cross to (not helped by having the aforementioned striker in a crossing position).  He questioned our attacking fullbacks when we have neither the central defensive or midfield ability to cover them.  If we don't have anything in the U21s at this point in time which could come in and do a job then that's one shit academy.  But I don't think it is.  I just think that as I've said, Garde hasn't used it properly.  All IMHO of course.  The U21 cameos that have happened have only reinforced my view.

Yeah I read that report as well. I was kind of worried that Joey Barton could see these obvious issues yet our supposed progressive thinking manager can't do anything with them.

[mykeyb]

51 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Yeah, completely (selectively) forgetting the fact that Sherwood had Benteke & Delph helping him with that goals scored stat and he replaced them with players who are seemingly allergic to scoring goals and left them for Garde to use.

Benteke and Delph were sold before the season started!

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, NeilS said:

My opinion with regards to the goalscoring problems we have suffered, I still stand by my thoughts from that time that we have recruited extremely badly in the forward department last summer. Previous to this season we relied heavily on Benteke to score the goals.

I agree totally on that point but Sherwood managed to get the team to score 10 goals in 10 games where Garde has only managed to get the team to score 12 in 19 with the pretty much the same staff available. Had we scored more goals under Garde we might be closer to Sunderland, Norwich & Newcastle...........................or we might not.

[Ingram85]

20 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Benteke and Delph were sold before the season started!

You aren't wrong there. My bad.

[srsmithusa]

18 hours ago, ferguson1 said:

The one thing very noticeable yesterday and have to say the last few weeks is the lack of pressing from us when the opposition have the ball?  Usually one our players goes towards a player then just points to another to either support him or pick up someone else.  However, watching Spurs yesterday, Liverpool and Man City recently, they all hunt in packs!  2/3 players closing us down very quickly in an attempt to win it back.  Now whether it be lack of fitness, lack of quality or additionally, lack of awareness, I would expect us to be doing this?  It appears Garde is setting us up better but certain basics like this appear to be missing still?  The worry for me now is if he stays would he go for players he may know/trust on the continent, whereby pressing quickly doesn't come natural?  We will certainly need to work hard and press in the Championship that's for sure and truly believe now that we need a new man at the helm!  Just don't want the club to sack him due to the costs involved and looking bad to other potential managers.  Kind of hope he walks at the end of the season, but with my best wishes.

Although that is partly true because high pressure is much more effective when the opposition lacks vision, skill, awareness, confidence, or quickness of thought. 

If you pressurize and hunt a really good, really confident player "in packs," and his teammates have awareness and quickness of thought to move to space, he confidently and skillfully plays a simple pass that places the whole pack behind the play.  Your best option against those players may be to have one man contain them and the rest mark the runners he may play in to effect.

So, If I was managing Tottenham (for example) I would pressure the ball and hunt in packs while playing Villa.  I would contain and mark the runners when playing just about anyone else in the league (only a slight exaggeration.)  

Basically, our weak, fearful, tactically unaware team encourages high pressure from our opponents by rewarding it, rather than punishing it.

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its like saying who is the worst Jimmy Saville or John Hall

John Hall? Who he?

Stuart hall perhaps?

[TRO]

Just now, briny_ear said:

John Hall? Who he?

Stuart hall perhaps?

thanks brin........old age creeping on

Edited March 15, 2016 by TRO

[TRO]

good piece in the B/Mail tonight making comparisons with us and Leicester in their last 9 games last season.....by Gregg Evans