Popular Post sexbelowsound Posted December 21, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2015 5 minutes ago, KHV said: There is a big difference between making a change at 1-1 when a team is reeling and there for the taking and what Sherwood was doing There is but we don't have the kind of players to bring in that would have helped keep our shape. Newcastle are winning games on the counter when the game gets stretched against better teams than us. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Exactly. They dispatched Liverpool and Spurs back to back by capitalizing on stretched defences despite being dominated for most of those games. It's easy saying we should have capitalized on our dominance, but tbh Newcastle would have probably done it first. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted December 21, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) They may have, but in our situation, attacking a poor Newcastle team on the ropes is a gamble well worth taking. If we're not prepared to try and get 3 points in that scenario then when are we? There's always going to be some excuse as to why the opposition might punish us. It's the kind of approach Lambert and Mcleish had far too often and its not good enough for a team in the position we are in. Edited December 21, 2015 by DCJonah 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: They may have, but in our situation, attacking a poor Newcastle team on the ropes is a gamble well worth taking. If we're not prepared to try and get 3 points in that scenario then when are we? There's always going to be some excuse as to why the opposition might punish us. It's the kind of approach Lambert and Mcleish had far too often and its not good enough for a team in the position we are in. Well that would be too ambitious wouldn't it? It's really that sort of ambition that will keep us in the league as far as I'm concerned, we just have to roll the dice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted December 21, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2015 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: They may have, but in our situation, attacking a poor Newcastle team on the ropes is a gamble well worth taking. If we're not prepared to try and get 3 points in that scenario then when are we? There's always going to be some excuse as to why the opposition might punish us. It's the kind of approach Lambert and Mcleish had far too often and its not good enough for a team in the position we are in. We did attack them, though. We had the majority of the ball and chances in the second half from what I remember - we weren't sitting back at all. If we went all out attacking and Newcastle suckered us on the break then a] we'd have lost again but more importantly b] we'd have lost yet more ground on a team around us. Sherwood would have almost certainly managed this. That performance was far different to a Lambert (end of reign) or McLeish approach to the game. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 16 minutes ago, DCJonah said: They may have, but in our situation, attacking a poor Newcastle team on the ropes is a gamble well worth taking. If we're not prepared to try and get 3 points in that scenario then when are we? There's always going to be some excuse as to why the opposition might punish us. It's the kind of approach Lambert and Mcleish had far too often and its not good enough for a team in the position we are in. Garde himself explained that while we do need wins, a draw to start off this "crucial" run is not so bad as long as we start winning come next week. He made it clear that it is his intention to start winning immediately but under the circumstances, a draw is okay for now. I think what he did was sensible. How devastating would it have been to go into the next game having narrowly lost at the death, again? What Garde is doing from the way I see it is incrementally building up the players' confidence with solidity and subsequently incrementally improving our results. Again, I think this is sensible because we have 20+ games to save ourselves. It's all too easy to go gung-ho now and still manage to further shatter any confidence we had left. Besides It's not like he completely shut up shop. We were clearly attacking them all second half, so that's a bit unfair. He simply did not bring on Adama or Grealish/Gil, and it's like his substitution of bring on Gestede which was an attacking substitution (!) is overlooked, especially considering how much more potent we became when he came on. I think people are being unnecessarily hard on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Was interesting that Remi said during the Newcastle press conference "the players had no pre season, and a bad start to the season..." He's been polite about the previous regime so far, but that was a pretty blatant comment re: Sherwood and Wilkins. Not that its anything we didn't already know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 We did attack and it was better than the first half but that doesn't mean we couldn't push more. Really we only had the one great chance where Gestede was slightly late to a cross. Whereas de Jong, winaldum and sissokho all missed decent chances in the second half. I just disagree with the conclusion that we can't take a gamble against that sort of team while on top. Like I said, there's always going to be an excuse. West ham are a good team, better not push for the win. Norwich beat united at old Trafford, better not push for the win. We will not get many opportunities where we've got the chance to take 3 points. If we're not prepared to use subs to try and make that happen because of the fear of losing then we might as well quit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 24 minutes ago, bobzy said: We did attack them, though. We had the majority of the ball and chances in the second half from what I remember - we weren't sitting back at all. If we went all out attacking and Newcastle suckered us on the break then a] we'd have lost again but more importantly b] we'd have lost yet more ground on a team around us. Sherwood would have almost certainly managed this. That performance was far different to a Lambert (end of reign) or McLeish approach to the game. It was slightly different to lambert at the end. But his overall time here it was just like it. Defensive approach from the start, lack of changes and relying on a moment of magic to get something from the game. It was lambertesque in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Gestede was surely the right sub to make in those conditions? The ball was struggling to role and wouldnt have suited players like adama, gil, grealish. We were getting crosses in and attacking but noone was meeting them. Gestede made sense, and had we put adama or gil on we might have lsot the game and people would have been going mad and comparing him to sherwood and the idiotic changes he made. Garde may not have produced a bounce, but im convinced he is a far better long term option (relegation or not) than any other manager we have had/could have realisitcally had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 45 minutes ago, DCJonah said: We did attack and it was better than the first half but that doesn't mean we couldn't push more. Really we only had the one great chance where Gestede was slightly late to a cross. Whereas de Jong, winaldum and sissokho all missed decent chances in the second half. I just disagree with the conclusion that we can't take a gamble against that sort of team while on top. Like I said, there's always going to be an excuse. West ham are a good team, better not push for the win. Norwich beat united at old Trafford, better not push for the win. We will not get many opportunities where we've got the chance to take 3 points. If we're not prepared to use subs to try and make that happen because of the fear of losing then we might as well quit now. No, I agree with you overall about attacking - I just think the Newcastle game was an example of being attacking but not too much so, which may risk us against a direct relegation rival. r.e: your comments regarding Norwich and West Ham, you're missing the point entirely. Against Norwich, we should not be over committing because they are also a relegation rival. Against West Ham, we could definitely go for the jugular (whether we will or not, who knows) because they simply aren't in direct competition with us. Newcastle, Norwich, Sunderland and possibly West Brom are "don't lose" games (although we obviously need to attack still). West Ham x2, Palace, Leicester are games where we need to look to attack more heavily. I can see why we might have introduced Traore against Newcastle - and maybe instead of Gestede (although that sub worked to an extent) - but I'm not massively concerned that we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I disagree. I think the games against our rivals are the best chance we've got of winning. We're an awful team, targeting games where we're clearly outmatched as the ones to win just seems crazy when you look at the performances we've put out. Also the fact the gap to safety keeps increasing surely makes it even more important we beat those teams around us. Newcastle, bourmouth and Norwich have shown we can't rely on them losing the games they should to help save us. Edited December 21, 2015 by DCJonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Just now, DCJonah said: I disagree. I think the games against are rivals are the best chance we've got of winning. We're an awful team, targeting games where we're clearly outmatched as the ones to win just seems crazy when you look at the performances we've put out. Also the fact the gap to safety keeps increasing surely makes it even more important we beat those teams around us. Newcastle, bourmouth and Newcastle have shown we can't rely on them losing the games they should to help save us. Again, you're missing the point. We'd be targetting those games as ones to win, just not to overstretch the teams completely. Sunderland is one to potentially dominate but against Newcastle and Norwich, they are teams who play exclusively on the counter attacks. Over-committing is very risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 In our situation everything is very risky. There has to be times when we're prepared to take those risks. And I felt that against a poor team, in poor conditions, who were on the ropes was a perfect opportunity to take a bit of a gamble for a win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 We just need to always target whoever we're playing next. Other teams have shown that the big clubs can be beat this season. And at some point we too are going to have to cause a few upsets if we're to survive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 5 hours ago, Butterfingers said: Thats exactly how I see it Nick. It wasn't as if we weren't creating without any of those 3 on the pitch. We haven't (quite) reached the stage where we need to go all out for wins yet. That said, we need to get 10 from somewhere. we are definitely at the stage when we need go all our for wins. If we drew our next 22 games we would still not stay up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Right manager at the wrong time imo. We needed a big Sam now. We should have got someone like Remi at the end of Lamberts last season he kept us up with wank football. Looking at our under 21 team playing arsenal today. It's very strong with pretty much our best kids coming through bar Green and Suliman. They will likely form the future to bring us back up. Remi is suppose to be good with bringing up youth players .. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 3 hours ago, mwj said: Was interesting that Remi said during the Newcastle press conference "the players had no pre season, and a bad start to the season..." He's been polite about the previous regime so far, but that was a pretty blatant comment re: Sherwood and Wilkins. Not that its anything we didn't already know. I think its obvious to all that the preseason we had under Sherwood and Wilkins was a joke He himself complained 8 games into the season that the players were not fit enough they still do not look like they are capable of playing high tempo for more than 60 minutes like teams such as Bournemouth and Leicester have shown Duverne will fix this but we have a lot of catching up to do and it's probably too late 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, KSV said: Right manager at the wrong time imo. We needed a big Sam now. We should have got someone like Remi at the end of Lamberts last season he kept us up with wank football. Looking at our under 21 team playing arsenal today. It's very strong with pretty much our best kids coming through bar Green and Suliman. They will likely form the future to bring us back up. Remi is suppose to be good with bringing up youth players .. Who knows. I agree with this, apart from the 'right manager' bit. I'm not, thus far, convinced he's right for anything. Based on performances, tactics and decisions during games, he's like Lambert and McLeish's love child. The only thing that will convince me is us actually getting some wins, especially against the Watford's and Newcastle's of this world. Edited December 21, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Not time for being too cautious boxing day. He has to go all out to win against an injury hit West Ham team who haven't scored in 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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