Richard Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 12 minutes ago, BOF said: They have failed. Why have they failed? Is it because players wouldn't come? Is it because they didn't try hard enough (or at all) to buy anyone? It was clearly a difficult sell. Do you strengthen this season in an attempt to stay up? (1) January brings its own problems re- value for money. In that situation you're trying to sign Premier League quality players. They may very well say no thanks. Loan signings are clearly the way to go. We get who we want. The player has a get out of jail free card. Or do you strengthen for next season in an attempt to come back up? (2) Now you've publically conceded this season; given up. The fans will rightly slaughter you.(3) Will the better championship players even join, knowing they're back in the Championship next season? (4) So now you're looking at Championship standard players who are happy to be back there next season i.e. 2nd tier Championship, non-aspirational players.(5) Or foreign players looking for a quick buck who aren't wanted by the Premier League sides.(6) None of the above is me trying to defend what has happened. If anything I'm trying to put 'on paper' the position the club would have found themselves in. We'll only know in hindsight just how bad this window was. I don't think it would have been the difference between going down and staying up. I think that ship has sailed and been torpedoed. With that in mind would it have gotten us overpaid players given that it's the only scenario they'd join us under? I dunno. Whatever the right answer, it has to be better and more forward-thinking than what has happened. I'm getting a bad feeling about all of this, and I mean bad in comparison to the bad feelings we've been getting in the past 5 years. This could be the beginning of us leaving the Premier League for a pretty long time. As others have said already, we could be looking back at this in years to come as the good old days if it continues to go along these lines. Agree with the last paragraph entirely. As to some of the points you make about signings etc, I have a disagreement on some (noted above in bold) 1. Quite obviously no, as you say that ship has sailed no point trying to stay up 2. Yes I believe this is what we should have done 3. Havent they done that anyway but not trying? At least they could have had a narrative around that. 4. I am sure they would if the club was a better long term prospect than where they are currently and could persuade that ours was a temporary stay away from top flight. Perhaps they felt unable to convince of that 5. Not necessarily, see point 4 above, you could be looking at better quality that others have not taken a punt on and could be persuaded to come to us for the long term. (a la Brentford Goalie, midfielder at Forest, full back at Walsall) 6. Too generalistic and not necessarily the case, how about Veretout, Amavi and Ayew? All persuaded to join a struggling team who had 5 years relegation battles behind them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 17 hours ago, terrytini said: TRO said "I personally think we buy too many players that folk think are ok.....and they are not." Sorry TRO thought Id try not to requite all my own post and messed it up ! In answer to that - I think the fans of every single Club would say that! I cannot think of a single side where that hasn't been said by their own fans. And that's because its true. Bony was a success at Swansea but not City. Sinclair ditto. For a long time, Ashley at Man U. Collins, thrown out here, fixture at West Ham. Albrighton (in reverse) Steve Davis (in reverse), Forlan, we could go on forever. That's why you have to buy, then buy, then buy, and then buy some more. A great player at one Club can be a disaster at another...how does scouting or anything else prevent that ? You have to keep dipping in and hope to get the blend. That is my argument about generally and the summer. Of course some don't work. Apart from a few gifted players, some really natural goalscorers, and at the next level down a few exceptionally intelligent players (Sheringham, Leighton Phillips !) a lot of players (and the character of a lot of players) is much of a muchness. The blend is as important as anything, and theres only a few Cloughies in history, so you have to keep buying. Terry, of course you have to keep buying and of course other clubs buy duds. its the ratio between good and bad I have issues with......it's the amount of duds that is he issue. I simply believe we have bought too many for to long that are not up to it......the good signings dilute/ negate the damage of the bad.....but we have had too many bad ones. is it the owners fault......is it the managers fault.......is it the scouting networks fault. I simply don't know.....could be a bit of all of them. but IMO We have bought too many duds.....too many fully amortised players we have given free's too.....let go of better players than we have or bought in. We have not arrived at the place by bad luck or the odd bad signing or the odd bad decision.....it's been a catalogue of continuous failure to improve things. Paul Lambert is reported as saying in the B/ mail. ....I was glad to have the sack.....there is something wrong with the place.....but he didn't mention names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not really. Richardson did play a lot better v chelsea than what amavi had been playing against the likes of palace. One good game vs one mad moment, that could conceivably be blamed on Guzan. My opinion stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Marka Ragnos said: On top of all that, there's the simple matter of entertainment value. Where's the fun now, you know? This, for me, is the best point made today. I said a week or ten days ago that my horizons had narrowed to simply wanting a striker. We have two injured, and none of our strikers can score more than one even on a good day. They're crap, simply put. I hear all of the arguments about building in the summer instead, less value for money in January, we're down anyway, etc etc. And largely I agree with them. They're good points! But we've got, like, fifteen games left and we won't score. As I've said twice already, my money is that we score less than ten times the rest of this season. And forget staying up - that ship sailed months ago - but not scoring goals is **** boring. I won't go again this season because I have no belief, not that we will the game, but that we will even score in the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Well Jordan Ayew backs up my point earlier. Has not performed well enough, doesn't matter that he's better than others. He's not done enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't necessarily think we brought in too many bad players in the summer or too many players in general athough we could have intergrated the foreign lads better for sure and been a little bit more sensible in filling positions. What we failed to do imo was bring in players with real strength and pace, bar traore and look how he frightens teams. We cannot bully teams and as you all know, and if you don't have the quality of the top teams you need organisation, strength and pace its that simple. We have without doubt the physically weakest and smallest(height)midfield in the league and a forward line without any quick movement to stretch sides. It's the biggest attribute failure in the squad. Maybe someone will correct me but except for the Gil goal against Leicester earlier in the season I cannot remember breaking out of defence quickly, into attack and scoring, or even look like scoring. Teams have found it easy to get back in numbers and restrict any opportunities we have due to the above. Which then leaves us playing sideways across the eighteen yard line looking for spaces. Although Remi has imo strengthened the organisation of the team somewhat he is handtied as to doing much more with the options available. He has even been trying to play 3 number 10's in midfield(Ayew,Gil,Veretout) as the rest of the midfield offer no threat going forward. How many teams can do that? I hope he stays as I think he is the most balanced person in the club at the moment and no doubt knows the problems and how to rectify them if supported. Problem is will they support him(doubtful)... And working with or for utter dickheads can lead to insanity and he may just value his enough to realise he is just banging his head up a brick wall and walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Poor bugger. Sod all backing from the board and now he has a moment of madness from Ayew and a bent ref to deal with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 2, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Both "proper" strikers injured. No extra ones signed and now our only other player who can put a decent shift in up front is banned for 3 games. Nails in our coffin. Edited February 2, 2016 by Stevo985 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) 53 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: I don't necessarily think we brought in too many bad players in the summer or too many players in general athough we could have intergrated the foreign lads better for sure and been a little bit more sensible in filling positions. What we failed to do imo was bring in players with real strength and pace, bar traore and look how he frightens teams. We cannot bully teams and as you all know, and if you don't have the quality of the top teams you need organisation, strength and pace its that simple. We have without doubt the physically weakest and smallest(height)midfield in the league and a forward line without any quick movement to stretch sides. It's the biggest attribute failure in the squad. Maybe someone will correct me but except for the Gil goal against Leicester earlier in the season I cannot remember breaking out of defence quickly, into attack and scoring, or even look like scoring. Teams have found it easy to get back in numbers and restrict any opportunities we have due to the above. Which then leaves us playing sideways across the eighteen yard line looking for spaces. Although Remi has imo strengthened the organisation of the team somewhat he is handtied as to doing much more with the options available. He has even been trying to play 3 number 10's in midfield(Ayew,Gil,Veretout) as the rest of the midfield offer no threat going forward. How many teams can do that? I hope he stays as I think he is the most balanced person in the club at the moment and no doubt knows the problems and how to rectify them if supported. Problem is will they support him(doubtful)... And working with or for utter dickheads can lead to insanity and he may just value his enough to realise he is just banging his head up a brick wall and walk. we bought in 13 players And despite losing our best 4 that leaves another 9 we have just about capitulated. its open to interpretation as to whether the summer was good or bad. my opinion is irrelevant, make your own mind up......but I think the league position answers most of the questions. Edited February 2, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbigron Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Do feel sorry for him. He clearly wasn't happy before the game and looked delighted with Ayew, but surely he should have thrown caution to the wind after 70 minutes and put Sinclair and Grealish on. No point in protecting a 1-0 loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 At least he can walk away from this mess. We're stuck with it for life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, bringbackbigron said: Do feel sorry for him. He clearly wasn't happy before the game and looked delighted with Ayew, but surely he should have thrown caution to the wind after 70 minutes and put Sinclair and Grealish on. No point in protecting a 1-0 loss I think sticking with it trying to keep it to 1-0 then knicking a set piece was fair enough. Unfortunately our set piece led to their second goal, which sums it up. Edited February 2, 2016 by sharkyvilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieVillan Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I like him, but not sure what we were trying to do after we went down to 10 men. I suppose you could say that when we did try to attack we conceded a goal pretty much immediately, so maybe that vindicates our approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midian Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 What a shame for the bloke not had no backing,team is a pile of s##t I hope he leaves doesnt deserve the rubbish he gets,feel genuinely sorry for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 He should walk - why put yourself through the stress and bother when you've got no support from the people who promised you some? Look at the subs we had today. Richardson and Sinclair ffs - what's he supposed to do with absolute turds like them? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Give him a proper team, and he will show his quality. These last few weeks we have looked very organized. Too bad there is just so many poor players at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 2, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2016 Just now, GeordieVillan said: I like him, but not sure what we were trying to do after we went down to 10 men. Hang on to a point? What else could we do? We barely have good enough attackers to score when we play well with 11 men. Down to 10 and with Agbonlahor leading the line, I don't really see what his options were. We gambled towards the end and it cost us a second goal, but I haven't seen us as drilled defensively as we were today for a long time. It's sad that that's the only positive I can take from the game, but I don't think you can blame Garde, or any of the players that remained on the pitch, for what happened tonight. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Can see him walking away now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midian Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 1 minute ago, lexicon said: He should walk - why put yourself through the stress and bother when you've got no support from the people who promised you some? Look at the subs we had today. Richardson and Sinclair ffs - what's he supposed to do with absolute turds like them? 100% agree! He just looked a beat man on TV,he could be gone sooner than we think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Feel for him. Hope he stays on. Not sure that he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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