HanoiVillan Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Today was the day I started the process of turning on him really. I promised I wouldn't demand yet another sacking this season, and I won't, not least because it won't happen. But he was a hopelessly mistaken appointment. We needed Allardyce; we got Garde. He has no idea how to manage in this situation, it's a totally new experience for him and he seems, nice man though he doubtless is, totally and utterly out of his depth. One of the reasons I promised I wouldn't turn on the new manager was that I felt fairly confident that no-one could fail to better Sherwood's dismal record of 4 points from 11 matches, and yet Garde has failed to better it. In fact it's worse, because at least Sherwood beat the lower-league cup opposition we faced. Garde's probably a better manager than Sherwood, in some way, but he will never prove it here IMO. We're going to need to replace him in the summer unless he massively turns around this team's form, and I mean he needs to win at least half a dozen matches. I think it's beyond him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post briny_ear Posted January 10, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2016 i dont disagree but Sherwood did same thing and a lot of people came on here calling him a disgrace for throwing them under the bus yet its all quiet about it tonight I said what I did when Tim did it and I agree with both of them but just double standards on here [emoji6] Perhaps I could be accused of double standards myself, but for me the difference is in the attitude; with Sherwood it felt more like he was trying to save his own neck, whereas with Garde it seems like he genuinely doesn't understand why the players aren't showing the kind of stones he expects of them. Not only that, but because of Sherwood's history at Spurs I think people were watching out for him to start blaming the players so he got called on it more. Now, you could argue that as manager it's Garde's job to sort out those players who aren't doing what they're told and either bring them in line or bump them out of the team, but it's not like we're blessed with high-quality backup players so it's difficult to know what he should do. I'm certainly not painting Garde's stint in charge as a success, but I lay more of the blame at the door of the spineless players than I do the manager right now. Let's see if I've got this. The Villa squad under Sherwood have a dreadful run of results. Sherwood says the players aren't doing what he's asked of them and he is the one to blame. The Villa squad under Garde have a dreadful run of results. Garde says the players aren't doing what he's asked of them and the players are the ones to blame. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villastine Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Today was the day I started the process of turning on him really. I promised I wouldn't demand yet another sacking this season, and I won't, not least because it won't happen. But he was a hopelessly mistaken appointment. We needed Allardyce; we got Garde. He has no idea how to manage in this situation, it's a totally new experience for him and he seems, nice man though he doubtless is, totally and utterly out of his depth. One of the reasons I promised I wouldn't turn on the new manager was that I felt fairly confident that no-one could fail to better Sherwood's dismal record of 4 points from 11 matches, and yet Garde has failed to better it. In fact it's worse, because at least Sherwood beat the lower-league cup opposition we faced. Garde's probably a better manager than Sherwood, in some way, but he will never prove it here IMO. We're going to need to replace him in the summer unless he massively turns around this team's form, and I mean he needs to win at least half a dozen matches. I think it's beyond him. Sadly your opinion is fair and reasonable. There are no signs of improvement under Garde. He finally moved Richards to right back but it looks like that was forced on him by injuries rather than by design. However I'm still not giving up on Garde. I hope the club back him in the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 19 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Let's see if I've got this. The Villa squad under Sherwood have a dreadful run of results. Sherwood says the players aren't doing what he's asked of them and he is the one to blame. The Villa squad under Garde have a dreadful run of results. Garde says the players aren't doing what he's asked of them and the players are the ones to blame. No. When Sherwood said it, it felt to me like he was protecting his reputation, in part because of his arrogant nature and in part because his stint at Villa almost exactly mirrored his time at Spurs where he'd done the same thing. When Garde says it, it feels more honest. It's a judgement of character, not ability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'll judge him when he's had the opportunity to get his own players in and use them for a while. So in a month or so, I suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 7 hours ago, DCJonah said: Sherwood inherited a team that wasn't his. Sherwood joined a villa side, on a run that was similar to the one Garde joined. And after winning, that's right winning, 7 out of 13 games. He was then heavily criticised by many for the next 3 defeats. But the team Sherwood joined had Benteke, Vlaar, Delph (the spine of a team that had played together for 3 years) and Cleverly. lets judge him after he can address the imbalance this window? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 23 minutes ago, thunderball said: But the team Sherwood joined had Benteke, Vlaar, Delph (the spine of a team that had played together for 3 years) and Cleverly. lets judge him after he can address the imbalance this window? exactly. Some people dont understand different circumstances. Cant always compare the situations. Sherwood had it alot better after Lambert than Garde had after Sherwood. He had better players with better confidence levels. Garde has also had a bad run of injuries and havent been able to pick a settled side. I dont want Remi in.. but no way i want that joker of a manager Sherwood back. We needed experience. Sherwood and Remi are both inexperienced at this level.. and in the situation we were in when Lambert left.. we needed a Big Sam style manager who knows how to get the team playing to survive. Then once he manages Villa to mid table.. then we get can afford a gamble with the likes of Remi. We skipped a step and now we are suffering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 8 hours ago, Daweii said: He was furious earlier as I think whatever he says to the players they just ignore. You can pretty much tell the players that respect him and the club out there on that pitch and they were the only three playing well.. Gil, Veretout and Ayew. When you only have three players pulling in one direction and the rest going in the other it's what's causing the issues. Now I'm not letting Garde off completely as he needs to impose himself more as he knows our failings and is likely trying to rectify them, but if every player is like "yes boss", "okay boss", "will do boss" in training and then shows on match day they weren't listening then what can he do really. Drop every single one of those not listening and play kids . He has nothing to lose, we are down anyway, we expect to get beat by every team we face. Play the kids and see what response he gets and maybe, just maybe he will unearth a gem or two for next year 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Richard said: Drop every single one of those not listening and play kids . He has nothing to lose, we are down anyway, we expect to get beat by every team we face. Play the kids and see what response he gets and maybe, just maybe he will unearth a gem or two for next year And what do we do with those dropped? We still have to pay them and the less they play the less we'll get for them in a transfer window. I agree with your sentiment though - I'd love to see players who want to take their chances and prove their good enough and proud enough to put a Villa shirt on. What's needed is some serious direction from those up top, Randy, Tom Fox and his minions - the silence and apathy eminating from the boardroom is scandalous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, theboyangel said: And what do we do with those dropped? We still have to pay them and the less they play the less we'll get for them in a transfer window. I agree with your sentiment though - I'd love to see players who want to take their chances and prove their good enough and proud enough to put a Villa shirt on. What's needed is some serious direction from those up top, Randy, Tom Fox and his minions - the silence and apathy eminating from the boardroom is scandalous. How much are we likely to get for them anyway? The only ones of value are the ones who have been identified as listening to him and would retain their status 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Just now, Richard said: How much are we likely to get for them anyway? The only ones of value are the ones who have been identified as listening to him and would retain their status more money down the pan then.... The problem is, the ones who listen and perform will be the ones targetted by other clubs and naturally, Randy will take the money leaving us with the shower of shit not even we want at the club. Dark days ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Let's see if I've got this. The Villa squad under Sherwood have a dreadful run of results. Sherwood says the players aren't doing what he's asked of them and he is the one to blame. The Villa squad under Garde have a dreadful run of results. Garde says the players aren't doing what he's asked of them and the players are the ones to blame. No. When Sherwood said it, it felt to me like he was protecting his reputation, in part because of his arrogant nature and in part because his stint at Villa almost exactly mirrored his time at Spurs where he'd done the same thing. When Garde says it, it feels more honest. It's a judgement of character, not ability. Well if you choose to interpret the two managerial stints in such radically different ways, that's up to you. But the reality is: both managers have broadly the same record and neither have managed to get the players to play as directed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 30 minutes ago, Richard said: Drop every single one of those not listening and play kids . He has nothing to lose, we are down anyway, we expect to get beat by every team we face. Play the kids and see what response he gets and maybe, just maybe he will unearth a gem or two for next year Yah, like I say if he plays people who defy him then more fool him. Surely making a champions league team out of kids is his famously mooted forte, so what's to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 25 minutes ago, theboyangel said: And what do we do with those dropped? We still have to pay them and the less they play the less we'll get for them in a transfer window. In reality, who actually cares? Aston Villa only requires a squad of players to fulfill the positions in a starting 11 + bench. They can rot in the reserves until they decide to change their attitude and apply themselves, happens all the time. Players should be winning their position in a side, not just defacto because you pay them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Just now, Neil said: In reality, who actually cares? Aston Villa only requires a squad of players to fulfill the positions in a starting 11 + bench. They can rot in the reserves until they decide to change their attitude and apply themselves, happens all the time. Players should be winning their position in a side, not just defacto because you pay them money. So yet another Bomb squad? We've had more of them than the Luftwaffe... To be honest I would care about that - Lerner isn't splashing the cash and if we keep paying the disillusioned and lazy to rot in the reserves he's not likely to fund players who want to play here as we'd go over the wage budget. The club need to sort this out - find a way of reinstilling pride and desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, theboyangel said: So yet another Bomb squad? We've had more of them than the Luftwaffe... To be honest I would care about that - Lerner isn't splashing the cash and if we keep paying the disillusioned and lazy to rot in the reserves he's not likely to fund players who want to play here as we'd go over the wage budget. The club need to sort this out - find a way of reinstilling pride and desire. We need to get ready for the championship, we have players apparently defying the managers orders...why should they get on the pitch? None of what lerner spends, bomb squad or anything counts - the best players should get on the pitch and best includes those who want to play for the badge and follow the managers orders right? We'll instantly get a better team with that calibre of player, if the managers correctly followed plan is actually anything to go by. Honestly, who cares about anything else other than the right players getting on the pitch. You don't just play a defiant shit because you're paying him x amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 6 hours ago, lexicon said: I'll judge him when he's had the opportunity to get his own players in and use them for a while. So in a month or so, I suppose. I used to say the same about Sherwood. I do however think that the January window is not the right time to judge-Even more so this time around, given that we will not be attracting any player with aspirations of playing in the Premiership (for more than 3 months) I think the football has been OK-Or at least the attempts to play football. The quality is sadly lacking though and once you go on that slippery slope, it is very hard to turn things around. Personally, I would like to see an improvement between now and the end of the season. If that doesn't happen, I would hope for a change of manager. I have nothing against Garde and think he's been placed in an impossible position. For the good of the club though-We cannot start next season, with the same group of players and same manager who have just surrendered their PL position without as much as a whimper. If we show fight, heart and organisation between now & May, I will be happy to stick with Garde next season-More of the same and I think we'd have to part company 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 We have a restricted wage budget - without offloading players we will not be able to bring in others. I'm not saying just because they earn x amount of money, we should play them. I want to see committed players earn and deserve a place in the starting XI. I'd rather try and cash in on them (what we can get for them) and get them off the wage bill and out of the club, not pay them to mope around the training ground until their contracts expire or some chump buys them. Problem is, no one else is going to take any of our crap off our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, theboyangel said: Problem is, no one else is going to take any of our crap off our hands. Well there in lies the problem, I'm not really sure what your point is though because all we're saying is play others (players already at the club, including kids) instead of the non-conformists. I'm not sure how that changes anything regarding having to pay them. We have to pay them whether we play them or not, nobody is going to want to buy them whether they play or not...playing more deserving players is getting the best players at our disposal and for the long term of this club on the pitch now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 2 hours ago, thunderball said: But the team Sherwood joined had Benteke, Vlaar, Delph (the spine of a team that had played together for 3 years) and Cleverly. lets judge him after he can address the imbalance this window? I'm not using it as a reason to suggest Garde needs more criticism. I'm using it to show there was a different attitude towards the last manager. I don't for one second believe people thought to themselves "well he's got Benteke and delph so winning nearly half the games isn't good enough." People wanted to criticise Sherwood because they didn't like him. It looks crazy now, when you think he'd won 7 out of 13 games. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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