HanoiVillan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Nick Ferrari really is a cancer isn't he. I haven't forgotten him asking Afua Hirsch 'why don't you leave this country' either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I've said it before but (coming to close to) a majority of people in this country want authoritarianism. They want strong leaders who'll tell them they're safe, even at the cost of any freedoms and privacy in their lives. They want a strong army, even though that army will be used against them if they dissent. They want security, so their phones and laptops can be spied on as 'I have nothing to hide'. They want random people searched in the streets, even though 99.999% of these searches are for no reason. They want protesters who support the opposite cause to them to be silenced, even at the cost of their right to protest. They want unions to be powerless, because their jobs are fine, they run their own business or they're retired. It has to be the nature of 24/7 news and social media. Every awful thing happening in the world is reported immediately and for days, even though we live in some of the safest times in human history. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I've said it before but (coming to close to) a majority of people in this country want authoritarianism. They want strong leaders who'll tell them they're safe, even at the cost of any freedoms and privacy in their lives. They want a strong army, even though that army will be used against them if they dissent. They want security, so their phones and laptops can be spied on as 'I have nothing to hide'. They want random people searched in the streets, even though 99.999% of these searches are for no reason. They want protesters who support the opposite cause to them to be silenced, even at the cost of their right to protest. They want unions to be powerless, because their jobs are fine, they run their own business or they're retired. It has to be the nature of 24/7 news and social media. Every awful thing happening in the world is reported immediately and for days, even though we live in some of the safest times in human history. Until it happens to them of course but that thought is furthest from their mind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I've said it before but (coming to close to) a majority of people in this country want authoritarianism. They want strong leaders who'll tell them they're safe, even at the cost of any freedoms and privacy in their lives. They want a strong army, even though that army will be used against them if they dissent. They want security, so their phones and laptops can be spied on as 'I have nothing to hide'. They want random people searched in the streets, even though 99.999% of these searches are for no reason. They want protesters who support the opposite cause to them to be silenced, even at the cost of their right to protest. They want unions to be powerless, because their jobs are fine, they run their own business or they're retired. It has to be the nature of 24/7 news and social media. Every awful thing happening in the world is reported immediately and for days, even though we live in some of the safest times in human history. Yet ironically these are the people that harp on about 'freedom' all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 To be honest, there are authoritarian bootlickers who love nothing more than bending the knee in every country, at every time, across every culture. There's nothing unique about Britain in this regard. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: I've said it before but (coming to close to) a majority of people in this country want authoritarianism. They want strong leaders who'll tell them they're safe, even at the cost of any freedoms and privacy in their lives. They want a strong army, even though that army will be used against them if they dissent. They want security, so their phones and laptops can be spied on as 'I have nothing to hide'. They want random people searched in the streets, even though 99.999% of these searches are for no reason. They want protesters who support the opposite cause to them to be silenced, even at the cost of their right to protest. They want unions to be powerless, because their jobs are fine, they run their own business or they're retired. It has to be the nature of 24/7 news and social media. Every awful thing happening in the world is reported immediately and for days, even though we live in some of the safest times in human history. Yes that has largely been people’s response to the government locking up their populations during a pandemic. People are very willing to trade their freedoms for their perceived safety. It has probably been the most eye opening part of COVID19 for me. Edited December 9, 2020 by LondonLax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 9, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I've said it before but (coming to close to) a majority of people in this country want authoritarianism. They want strong leaders who'll tell them they're safe, even at the cost of any freedoms and privacy in their lives. They want a strong army, even though that army will be used against them if they dissent. They want security, so their phones and laptops can be spied on as 'I have nothing to hide'. They want random people searched in the streets, even though 99.999% of these searches are for no reason. They want protesters who support the opposite cause to them to be silenced, even at the cost of their right to protest. They want unions to be powerless, because their jobs are fine, they run their own business or they're retired. It has to be the nature of 24/7 news and social media. Every awful thing happening in the world is reported immediately and for days, even though we live in some of the safest times in human history. I think that's a bit of a "it depends what question you ask" type of situation. I don't disagree that we are presented with that kind of "information" about what people think - whether it's through the media, or observation, or what pops up on twitter of Facehole, but I don't think it's the reality, really. At best it's an amplification of lesser held views and more realistically I think it's plain wrong. So many issues and aspects of life are being boiled down to "for or against" binary positions, but that's not how people genuinely think or work. As an example, we have been told or observed over the past, what, 5 or 10 years that the UK "doesn't want foreigners" or is "anti-immigrants" and so on. And it's true that nasty racism is more visible and more prevalent, but when there are surveys asking neutral questions "what is your view of immigration" (rather than "do you think we should stop foreign scroungers taking advantage of...") you get consistent results saying immigration is beneficial. Or if people are asked about Windrush deportations and that scandal - they're very critical of the Gov't and Home Secretaries and sympathetic to the victims. And the same applies to all the other things on your list. or TL:DR "it's not like that - people are basically decent, kind and caring - ignore the screaming hell of twitter and clickbait and the real world is much gentler than portrayed (though not without its problems)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 On 07/12/2020 at 14:17, StefanAVFC said: The latest Tory line, parroted by the hilarious named James Cleverly is that the 'Oven ready' deal they bleated on about, was only the withdrawal deal and not the Brexit deal, and anyone who thinks it wasn't, is ignorant or dishonest. I guess Boris is one of them; in truth, both. Johnson repeating this lie at PMQs today. That the oven ready deal was the withdrawal agreement. Utter bollocks. Unfortunately Starmer didn't do his usual good job of nailing Johnson about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 9, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Johnson repeating this lie at PMQs today. That the oven ready deal was the withdrawal agreement. Utter bollocks. No, no no. You misunderstand those fine upstanding gentlemen - When they said "I'm not lying" - they didn't mean to imply that they were telling the truth, they were simply reporting that they were in the standing-up position, and anyone who pretends that they were talking about the accuracy of statements they may have made is a snowflake remainer who hates Britain. Don't you see? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Johnson repeating this lie at PMQs today. That the oven ready deal was the withdrawal agreement. Utter bollocks. Unfortunately Starmer didn't do his usual good job of nailing Johnson about it It’s not a lie, Boris’s deal was the for the withdrawal agreement (where he gave up NI in return for removing the ‘backstop’). There has never been a trade agreement made with the EU (we would have discussed it at length in the appropriate thread if there was!) I think a lot of people who don’t follow politics too closely might have assumed a trade deal had been made and was going to be implemented at the end of the withdrawal agreement when the Tories went on about their ‘oven ready’ withdrawal deal. I suspect the Tories were only too happy to let that confusion stand though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: To be honest, there are authoritarian bootlickers who love nothing more than bending the knee in every country, at every time, across every culture. There's nothing unique about Britain in this regard. Yep, they all bloody love Putin, strong man, strong leader. We should be more like Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, LondonLax said: It’s not a lie, Boris’s deal was the for the withdrawal agreement (where he gave up NI in return for removing the ‘backstop’). There has never been a trade agreement made with the EU (we would have discussed it at length in the appropriate thread if there was!) I think a lot of people who don’t follow politics too closely might have assumed a trade deal had been made and was going to be implemented at the end of the withdrawal agreement when the Tories went on about their ‘oven ready’ withdrawal deal. I suspect the Tories were only too happy to let that confusion stand though. Indeed. They are telling the truth now (on that one specific thing, anyway). The lying on this took place a year ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I trust you're all enjoying the one-year anniversary of Matt Hancock claiming his aide was 'punched in the face' by a Labour 'thug' at a visit to a hospital, Kuenssberg, Peston and Brand pushing the story to their millions of followers, and then a very quiet admission that the story was a complete lie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) Listen to Boris’s response. What an idiot. Edit: for anyone not aware the point made by the MP and the Indian farmers protests have nothing whatsoever to do with Pakistan. Edited December 9, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Listen to Boris’s response. What an idiot. Edit: for anyone not aware the point made by the MP and the Indian farmers protests have nothing whatsoever to do with Pakistan. What a cock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I trust you're all enjoying the one-year anniversary of Matt Hancock claiming his aide was 'punched in the face' by a Labour 'thug' at a visit to a hospital, Kuenssberg, Peston and Brand pushing the story to their millions of followers, and then a very quiet admission that the story was a complete lie. You mean where apparently Labour had bussed in thugs to assault the health secretary and his aides who were just trying to visit sick people in hospital and it all got rather nasty? The one which was inconveniently filmed by someone: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 hours ago, LondonLax said: It’s not a lie, Boris’s deal was the for the withdrawal agreement (where he gave up NI in return for removing the ‘backstop’). There has never been a trade agreement made with the EU (we would have discussed it at length in the appropriate thread if there was!) I think a lot of people who don’t follow politics too closely might have assumed a trade deal had been made and was going to be implemented at the end of the withdrawal agreement when the Tories went on about their ‘oven ready’ withdrawal deal. I suspect the Tories were only too happy to let that confusion stand though. I don't think a trade deal had been made, but I certainly think they claimed they had a deal ready to go (ie one that hadn't been agreed but they were confident would be) and a quick google suggests that's exactly what they did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 10, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2020 13 hours ago, LondonLax said: It’s not a lie, Boris’s deal was the for the withdrawal agreement Not so 13 hours ago, ml1dch said: They are telling the truth now This is incorrect. There is video from back then of Johnson talking about his oven ready deal and how it is ready to go and would protect supply chains and complete equivalence of standards... etc. - stuff nothing to do with the WA. They lied, he lied. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, blandy said: This is incorrect. There is video from back then of Johnson talking about his oven ready deal and how it is ready to go and would protect supply chains and complete equivalence of standards... etc. - stuff nothing to do with the WA. They lied, he lied. At play here is elision - or a number of elisions. We have the WA, what ministers and Johnson claimed were its effects (as opposed, often, to the reality), what ministers and Johnson claimed was in it (as opposed, often, to the reality), the consequences of it all, whether or not the UK could be relied upon to stick to agreements made, the public's perception of what all of these things were (versus the reality of what these things were), &c. The 'oven-ready deal' was the WA. Johnson (and others) may well have lied about what the WA did and its implications, i.e. it 'got Brexit done', 'kept supply chains intact', 'didn't put a customs border' blah, blah, blah, and so on, but the 'oven-ready deal' was the WA. Edited December 10, 2020 by snowychap 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I'm not sure Snowy. We all knew this oven ready stuff was the WA, but many didn't and stuff like the below doesn't help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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