The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

That's quite possibly the most inane thing I've read on VT (Off Topic). Re-read what you've written there, Tony.

PMQ's is  the only place where the question is asked with a "yes or No answer" and still the person responds with a third option

im not an avid follower of it but I hardly recall a PM ever answering a question 

It's good for a sound bite or two and that's about it ...That our impartial posters suggest Corbyn wipes the floor every week and yet nobody notices kinda proves my first point ... unless we are opting for the media conspiracy angle ? 

 

 

[snowychap]

6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

PMQ's is  the only place where the question is asked with a "yes or No answer" and still the person responds with a third option

im not an avid follower of it but I hardly recall a PM ever answering a question 

It's good for a sound bite or two and that's about it ...That our impartial posters suggest Corbyn wipes the floor every week and yet nobody notices kinda proves my first point ... unless we are opting for the media conspiracy angle ?

You should re-read what you wrote in the post that I quoted. It has largely eff all to do with what you've just posted here.

[Davkaus]

It was almost inevitable that future PMs would run scared and refuse to debate when Cameron got away with refusing to participate in anything other than a group 'debate' in which he never had to go head to head with Miliband. 

It's clearly not something that people care about a great deal in this country, not enough to cost them votes, so as someone going in to the GE with a significant poll lead, you'd have to be a bloody fool to agree to the debates, and May isn't a fool. A self-serving power-hungry god-bothering nutjob, but not a fool. As things stand the election is basically won, why invite opportunities for a slip up?

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Davkaus

[blandy]

pmqs - with the current 2, what it shows to me us that both of them are monumentally slow on their feet. Corbyn does OK to we'll in about a quarter of them, usually on the NHS. May generally matches corbyn for about half the time and gets the better of it about a quarter of the time. They're both really bad at it.

The pm of the day rarely gives straight answers, sadly. The questions are frequently poor, which is odd given they are prepared in advance. They are almost never yes no questions, at least. More typically it goes like this :

Could the pm explain why the [whatever] is in crisis?

This government is spending...on the [whatever] unlike the party opposite, who would do something horrible..

So a question aimed at pointing out a current story that's in the papers and answers that avoid providing information. It's weirdly gruesome. Still, there's a different canteen at work that doesn't have it on the telly, so I can avoid it now.

 

[darrenm]

Which is why it's disingenuous to use it as a stick to beat Corbyn. It's a pointless facade that no-one cares about.

[PompeyVillan]

Theresa May is so arrogant and contemptuous that she's declined to appear in any TV debates.

Probably because she'd be destroyed on Brexit I should imagine.

[tonyh29]

52 minutes ago, blandy said:

pmqs - with the current 2, what it shows to me us that both of them are monumentally slow on their feet. Corbyn does OK to we'll in about a quarter of them, usually on the NHS. May generally matches corbyn for about half the time and gets the better of it about a quarter of the time. They're both really bad at it.

The pm of the day rarely gives straight answers, sadly. The questions are frequently poor, which is odd given they are prepared in advance. They are almost never yes no questions, at least. More typically it goes like this :

Could the pm explain why the [whatever] is in crisis?

This government is spending...on the [whatever] unlike the party opposite, who would do something horrible..

So a question aimed at pointing out a current story that's in the papers and answers that avoid providing information. It's weirdly gruesome. Still, there's a different canteen at work that doesn't have it on the telly, so I can avoid it now.

 

That's a better put version of what I was saying

[tonyh29]

18 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Theresa May is so arrogant and contemptuous that she's declined to appear in any TV debates.

Probably because she'd be destroyed on Brexit I should imagine.

by who ... Corbyn the Brexit supporter  ?

 

I don't believe it's driven by arrogance or contempt  tbh ... it's probably more a case of , as Miliband showed ,  it can cost you almost certain victory  , so why take the chance  .. if it was neck and neck throw the dice , but she is so far ahead in current polls , she can only really give exposure to her rivals by holding TV debates ...  so I'd go for tactical

[StefanAVFC]

13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

by who ... Corbyn the Brexit supporter  ?

 

I don't believe it's driven by arrogance or contempt  tbh ... it's probably more a case of , as Miliband showed ,  it can cost you almost certain victory  , so why take the chance  .. if it was neck and neck throw the dice , but she is so far ahead in current polls , she can only really give exposure to her rivals by holding TV debates ...  so I'd go for tactical

Party before country. Got it.

[jon_c]

20 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

by who ... Corbyn the Brexit supporter  ?

I think she's not doing it, because she's more concerned about when they throw in audience questions, rather than anything any of the other candidates would say. 

[chrisp65]

She's not a quick thinker, she can't 'debate' without falling back very quickly on bad 'jokes' that make no sense outside of having a hundred lapdog MP's to drown out the confused silence with their strained shouty laughter noise.

She has facial ticks and grimaces that make her a dream for anyone with a decent camera that wants that 'bacon sandwich' moment. She's lucky the majority of the media choose not to do that to the PM they currently believe they can influence.

She has changed her mind and broken clear recent promises. She's tried to make a virtue of being a 'straight' vicars daughter. She has a parliamentary track record of voting against the tide of inclusive public opinion on anything broadly diverse.

She has been outed as an opportunist with a fantasy story of a united country and saboteurs wrecking brexit from within parliament (the facts couldn't point to the opposite any more clearly).

The woman would be mad to go head to head in a TV debate.

Not so much a problem with Corbyn, she can just point out he's Corbyn as per her usual tactic. But imagine her ability to field a question or a challenge from some other leader. She'd have nothing but a grimace and a graceless half arsed insult. Let the print media handle the message on her behalf. Let Kuenssberg and Robsinson give her uninterrupted air time on BBC radio. That's a much better plan. I eagerly await the R4 morning interview with any other political leaders to see if they are given the same uninterrupted air time she was given this morning. In my experience the usual Robinson technique is to ask a question, then start talking again three words in to the respondents answer. To give an air of interrogation and cutting journalism. This morning they might just as well have announced a speech by the PM and given her control of the power point remote. Not that that's the best tool for radio, but you catch my drift.

 

[darrenm]

4 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

by who ... Corbyn the Brexit supporter  ?

Do we really have to keep going round in these circles? I thought we'd already cleared it up that Corbyn campaigned for *remain* and that 2/3 of Labour voters listened to him and voted remain. He's since followed the result of the referendum.

[tonyh29]

Just now, darrenm said:

Do we really have to keep going round in these circles? I thought we'd already cleared it up that Corbyn campaigned for *remain* and that 2/3 of Labour voters listened to him and voted remain. He's since followed the result of the referendum.

I thought it was widely established that Corbyn barley campaigned  .. have a guess at how many of the planning meetings for the remain campaign Corbyn attended  ... did you guess at zero ?  Labour remain even went so far as to say Corbyn undermined and sabotaged them , did they not ?  Corbyn himself said  "I am not a lover of the European Union. I think it's a rational decision - we should stay to try to improve it." ... that's really not a ringing endorsement

 

Do you have evidence that the 2/3 of Labour supporters "listened" to him and voted remain as a result ... lets be honest 2/3rds of labour voters would have voted remain if Corbyn had appeared on stage naked and sung my old mans a dustman , I suspect he had little impact on that figure , it seemed the labour remain vote was more down to Unite , Unison ,GMB etc  ..

  as John Mann put so well " nothing unites Labour more than false comfort about the electorate "

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

I thought it was widely established that Corbyn barley campaigned  .. have a guess at how many of the planning meetings for the remain campaign Corbyn attended  ... did you guess at zero ?  Labour remain even went so far as to say Corbyn undermined and sabotaged them , did they not ?  Corbyn himself said  "I am not a lover of the European Union. I think it's a rational decision - we should stay to try to improve it." ... that's really not a ringing endorsement

 

Do you have evidence that the 2/3 of Labour supporters "listened" to him and voted remain as a result ... lets be honest 2/3rds of labour voters would have voted remain if Corbyn had appeared on stage naked and sung my old mans a dustman , I suspect he had little impact on that figure , it seemed the labour remain vote was more down to Unite , Unison ,GMB etc  ..

  as John Mann put so well " nothing unites Labour more than false comfort about the electorate "

You really are clutching at straws there.

Does everyone who supports remain have to attend the planning meetings?

Got any quotes from 'Labour remain' whoever they are?

So you've actually quoted Corbyn saying literally "we should stay"..? And you still say he wanted out. I'm very confused.

And the 2nd paragraph isn't really worth me responding to.

[tonyh29]

Just now, darrenm said:

You really are clutching at straws there.

I think that being accused of " clutching at straws"  from someone offering up that 2/3rds of voters went with remain because of Corbyn whilst offering no evidence to support it is probably the point that this particular conversation ends

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

8 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

Theresa May is so arrogant and contemptuous that she's declined to appear in any TV debates.

Probably because she'd be destroyed on Brexit I should imagine.

It's a smart move for a couple of reasons (1) she's not a good debater (2) it further buries Labour, she won't even dignify them with a debate, so ITV, BBC etc could empty chair her but it won't really make any real difference since no one is sold on Corbyn. 

[Xela]

TV debates... when did this become commonplace? Thought it was just the yanks who liked that spectacle. 

 

[a m ole]

Zac Goldsmith has gone crawling back 

[blandy]

On 19/04/2017 at 19:11, Xela said:

TV debates... when did this become commonplace? Thought it was just the yanks who liked that spectacle. 

2010 it started, and they've had 'em for the 2015 one and for the EU referendum. I think they're a good thing - it gives people something free of media spin, free of fake news, and hopefully lets more people form a view of the various politicians and their capabilities.

[Xela]

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

2010 it started, and they've had 'em for the 2015 one and for the EU referendum. I think they're a good thing - it gives people something free of media spin, free of fake news, and hopefully lets more people form a view of the various politicians and their capabilities.

To me, its the epitome of pop idol politics. I don't care if my MP is slick and can talk the talk, I want them to be able to walk the walk. I see it in my place, some people getting jobs just because they are good at bullshitting while far more capable people don't progress because they aren't as smooth. 

As Big Ron said "Don't tell me, show me"