The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Xela]

I've had a lot of calls with clients over the last week or so (mainly on rates and chaos around them) and all of them are critical of the Government. These are successful companies, whose owners/directors would always vote Tory. They're all saying its time for a change. 

 

[KentVillan]

51 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

While the whole thing feels hilariously unsustainable, I still don't really see the mechanism by which it happens.

She has no reason to resign. She's doing the exact thing that she said she was going to when she was elected. If you were her, why would you?

If MPs move against her (and in the current rules they can't for another eleven months), then they will just have the same problem in reverse. Parachute Gove / Sunak in without involving the members, and you'll just end up with the Truss half of the party blocking everything, but with the added bonus of having the membership furious at you. 

Involve the members, and it's another month or more long process, with the country wondering why it's happening all over again and you probably end up with Johnson back. There isn't anyone that they will unite behind, given the bloodletting of the summer.

Decide your agenda is being blocked, and call an election? They'd be wiped out.

I can't see how she gets anything (of note) through the Commons and I can't see how they get rid of her. 

There is no “Truss half of the party” though. She just has the members, who are irrelevant.

Edit: and the 1922 rules can be changed at any time by the committee

Edited October 3, 2022 by KentVillan

[Lichfield Dean]

2 hours ago, sidcow said:

I went for a walk round Centenary Square at lunch time. 

Surprisingly little going on. A fairly foaming at the mouth god botherer was the main entertainment. 

I enjoyed the Benny Hill theme and the Muppets theme being played loudly on repeat all day.

[bickster]

yes, this'll heal the rifts

 

[ender4]

30 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

There is no “Truss half of the party” though. She just has the members, who are irrelevant.

Edit: and the 1922 rules can be changed at any time by the committee

Doesn’t she have the MPs who voted her into the final two against Sunak?

[foreveryoung]

3 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

I hope the council delouses and  fully fumigates the city centre once they leave. 

You wait for the carnage at the local strip clubs tonight. 

[bickster]

30 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

There is no “Truss half of the party” though. She just has the members, who are irrelevant.

Edit: and the 1922 rules can be changed at any time by the committee

The point is that it doesn't matter if the 1922 rules can be changed, the public won't care, you can't keep playing the same trick over and over again. Even if they do change the rules and pot her, it will not make much of a dent in the polls, in fact it may harm them further. It was nasty enough last time, another leadership election would just seal the deal.

The only real way out of this is for Labour to propose a VONC and enough Tory rebels support it or even less likely the party actually splits, with the rebels attempting to start with a clean slate (actually now I think about it, this scenario is the most likely)

[KentVillan]

3 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Doesn’t she have the MPs who voted her into the final two against Sunak?

Yes but that was only 113 MPs (32%). And at least one of those (Dorries) has already turned on her. Many of her MP supporters were Continuity Boris MPs who thought she’d be another populist.

MPs supporting this programme are fairly limited in number, which is why you keep seeing John Redwood and various IEA people doing the media rounds.

[KentVillan]

Just now, bickster said:

The point is that it doesn't matter if the 1922 rules can be changed, the public won't care, you can't keep playing the same trick over and over again. Even if they do change the rules and pot her, it will not make much of a dent in the polls, in fact it may harm them further. It was nasty enough last time, another leadership election would just seal the deal.

The only real way out of this is for Labour to propose a VONC and enough Tory rebels support it or even less likely the party actually splits, with the rebels attempting to start with a clean slate (actually now I think about it, this scenario is the most likely)

You’re right in terms of winning another election, but that isn’t the game anymore.

If you’re a Tory MP worried about losing your seat, you’ll roll the dice again to at least have the chance of hanging on to your seat when Labour win.

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

The problem is the level of taxation required to properly fund the NHS will also cost them elections to the Tories in perpetuity.

If we want a quality health system the only options are more tax (like Sweden) or a social insurance model (like Germany).

If we can push towards something more like the Swedish model, then great, but to me that seems even less likely than introducing social insurance. It would require a totally different fiscal consensus.

Tbf, maybe Truss is going to **** the Tories and the low-tax model so hard, that the public will be more amenable to higher taxes. I just don't see it. Too many British people don't like paying tax even when it's used to fund things that make their life better.

It costs money to visit the doctor in Sweden. It depends on the service but usually around £15 a visit so obviously heavily subsidised but not free like the UK.

I think Australia has a pretty decent system. There is a free to use option that is available for everyone, but the catch is that anyone who earns over the average wage gets a heavy tax imposed on them. This penalty tax can be waved by taking up a private health insurance plan and is set at a rate that is higher than the cost of a basic health insurance package from one of the providers.  People who then take up private insurance tend to make use of it to ‘get some value out of it’ and that takes a big proportion of the population out of burdening the public system.

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Doesn’t she have the MPs who voted her into the final two against Sunak?

Most of those faced a very binary choice by then In the first round she only had the support of 14% of the MPs. She only really squeezed into second place in the final round when Badenoch dropped out
She doesn't really have that much support inside the parliamentary party

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

It costs money to visit the doctor in Sweden. It depends on the service but usually around £15 a visit so obviously heavily subsidised but not free like the UK.

I think Australia has a pretty decent system. There is a free to use option that is available for everyone, but the catch is that anyone who earns over the average wage gets a heavy tax imposed on them. This penalty tax can be waved by taking up a private health insurance plan and is set at a rate that is higher than the cost of a basic health insurance package from one of the providers.  People who then take up private insurance tend to make use of it to ‘get some value out of it’ and that takes a big proportion of the population out of burdening the public system.

I think I’m right in saying there’s no insurance in Sweden though, and it’s entirely tax funded, so it’s basically like the NHS but with a lot more funding (with small differences as you describe re costs for visits). You don’t pay big medical bills for anything in Sweden and you don’t need to take out insurance.

The Australian system I’m not familiar with, but sounds interesting. I know a lot of NHS workers have moved out there because the pay and conditions are better?

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

You’re right in terms of winning another election, but that isn’t the game anymore.

If you’re a Tory MP worried about losing your seat, you’ll roll the dice again to at least have the chance of hanging on to your seat when Labour win.

Looking at the current state of the polling, there may be plenty of MPs that may figure that the only way to get re-elected is in a completely different party

[LondonLax]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I think I’m right in saying there’s no insurance in Sweden though, and it’s entirely tax funded, so it’s basically like the NHS but with a lot more funding (with small differences as you describe re costs for visits). You don’t pay big medical bills for anything in Sweden and you don’t need to take out insurance.

The Australian system I’m not familiar with, but sounds interesting. I know a lot of NHS workers have moved out there because the pay and conditions are better?

Yeah you don’t pay for medical in Sweden but dental is not covered. Private insurance is a thing but it’s pretty unusual for people in Sweden to have it. Medicine is also subsided in different ways in each country. I’ve lived in Australia, the UK and Sweden and they all have their quirks/advantages.  

[Demitri_C]

6 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Recruitment crises happen for 3 reasons:

1. The pay isn't high enough.
2. The job is perceived as dangerous / unhealthy / too difficult.
3. Shortage of people going through the right training routes.

What the Tories have done is:

1. Reduce real-terms pay
2. Let the Covid situation escalate to the point that many NHS workers were dead, long-term sick, or psychologically traumatised
3. Made it more expensive to train to be a nurse or a doctor, and limited immigration (both student migration, and foreign workers with relevant skillsets)

Points 1 and 3 also feed into point 2. The recruitment crisis makes it progressively harder and more dangerous to work in the NHS.

FWIW, I don't believe an entirely tax-funded NHS works in the context of a country where voters are opposed to high taxes, and the population continues to get older. The solution is surely some kind of French/German style means-tested insurance model, where the poorest get healthcare entirely free, and then middle classes pay capped insurance fees that can't escalate like they do under the US model.

Yeah i agree with alot of that KV to be honest. Fundamentally especially with new HCAS/nurses coming in they paid a pathetic band 3 salary. Also im sorry to say the kind of people that do end up starting in these posts is quite worrying in my experience as they should not be anywhere near the posts.

Also one key point alot of doctors are going in PRIVATE sector. Why? Money and less work. Some consultants in my trust have left the nhs setup their own private practices and are making a killing off people as they know alot of people cant get appointments so those desperate will pay the £££.

It sucks

[Mark Albrighton]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

Christ

 

Redfield Wilton getting in on the act too.

 

[choffer]

Sounds like Steve Bray has decamped up to brum for the week and I love it. 

 

 

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 hour ago, choffer said:

Sounds like Steve Bray has decamped up to brum for the week and I love it. 

 

 

Get Dom Whiting to cruise around em for a few hours

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

This is very, very mad, especially for Services/IT.

[OutByEaster?]

Nadine Dorries has seen the polling and thinks they'll win the election.