Chindie Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 Got to get the word out about the new Satan. People will fall for his lies if you don't. I also think there's greater support for Starmer than you say. It's couched in 'at least he isn't the Tories' but I think the vast majority of commentary around him here is very supportive, explaining to the simple soft headed non-believers how everything he's done has been excellent. There's very little actual criticism, despite there being considerable reason to be critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchnry Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 It is crazy how much you post in here compared to the tory thread. Feels very agenda like tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 16 Moderator Share Posted February 16 Pretty sure I'm considered a Starmerite, as it currently stands I'm voting LibDem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 There's only so many times you can comment in shock that the blind three legged pig has rolled in the shit again. If you're trying to argue I'm in support of the Tories, you're so far off base you need to go get medical help. I despise Tories. I just despise Tories of all stripes. An agenda? Depends on what you'd define that as. I don't think I'd call it an agenda. What I will happily admit to is not liking Labours Tories, because I want to see this country get better for the worst off and the evidence suggests the path we're on isn't doing that... And we're not being offered an alternative, we're being told the exact nitty gritty of the path can be changed but the direction and destination does not change. That's not good and I won't support it. And secondly I don't like people being rewarded for underhandedness, or acting unfairly or immorally. The faction in charge did that. I was no fan of Corbyn, in his elections I was very critical of his policies and of him, and I didn't think he'd be a good PM (and didn't vote for him), but the actions taken against him were despicable, with his own party undermining him constantly and actively sabotaging their campaigns, screaming to high heaven about purges (that didn't happen) and then embarking on a PR campaign about how racist and evil their party was, including a horrifically cynical labelling of the leader a racist in the commons, for instance, when the evidence of that was laughable. Lo and behold they delivered a thumping majority for the Tories. Now 5 years later these same people are running around telling us how we simply must support this Labour party to get the Tories out, when they helped deliver the pain of the last 5 years, and not only that they actually aren't delivering much different, the best they can do is say they're not going to be so flagrant in their robbing the country and they're better administrators. Every pledge and promise they made to get into power has been binned, they have no discernable principles beyond power. They embarked on a horrific purge of the party which, had they had happen to them, would never have stopped reverberating around the universe such volume and tone would it have been screamed out with, and the response to any dissent on it has been the smug brushing off of silly commies. One of them described the absolutely awful purging of any dissent on Israel as the party 'ridding itself of fleas'. So I'm not going to cheer lead for them, and I'll criticise everything they do that isn't good, which so far has been most things. I'm not going to brush off how awful they are, I'm not going to pretend they're some great white hope for the country when every indication is they are the continuity of the awful political direction we've been on for the past generation. And I'll not buy into nonsense about you simply have to support this Labour party when 5 years ago that didn't stop THIS Labour party stabbing itself because they didn't like their leader. They **** the country over for their aims, they don't get a pat on the back the next time or get allowed to claim moral high ground when they blew it up last time. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Before people get too excited about the job Starmer is doing, it might be worth a look at the numbers on Wellingborough, I find them fascinating. Labour vote: 2024 - 13,844 2019 - 13,737 They put on an extra 107 votes. It was absolutely completely down to a collapse of the tory vote. There doesn’t appear to have been anyone there that has changed their mind about Labour in 5 years. Now, a win is a win. But what happened in Wellingborough, was 25,000 less people voted tory. 107 more people voted Labour. Personally, I wouldn’t rest on that result. You could argue Kingswood was an even less inspiring win. 2024 - 11,176 2019 - 16,492 Labour down over 5,000 votes, but again an absolute tory collapse. I know I’m comparing by elections with general elections. But I’m not seeing any love for Labour, just an abandoning of the tory party. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 You touch on it, but it's a critically important point that by-elections are almost always much lower in turnout. I think it'd be incredibly charitable to the Tories to think that the vast majority of people who couldn't be bothered to go and vote would necessarily vote for them, or that every single person who'd get out and vote Labour in a general election went out and voted yesterday. I think it's fair to say that when Labour come in with a momentous landslide of a victory, there's going to be rather less excitement than there was in '97 though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Numbers aren’t as important as percentages. The Tories are ****. Who says onlyTories stayed home. The turnout was in line with most by elections. Wrap it up how you like. The Tories are toast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 A potentially more interesting thought is what might have been had there been a Starmer Labour 5 years ago instead of a Corbyn Labour, fighting that crucial election against Boris Johnson. Would Labour have possibly won 5 years ago? The Tories seemed a chaotic mess at the time. If Labour had won would the UK perhaps even still be in the EU in some form today? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 16 minutes ago, LondonLax said: If Labour had won would the UK perhaps even still be in the EU in some form today? I don't think so. Starmer's Labour party may have won on a "will of da people", but I doubt they'd have won without being all in on Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 Perhaps Starmer's Labour would have been found out to be even bigger and even more institutionally racist even more loudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 23 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I don't think so. Starmer's Labour party may have won on a "will of da people", but I doubt they'd have won without being all in on Brexit I think there was always an easy win, something called “the UK deal” sold here as the EU bending over backwards to accommodate us but in reality it is EU-lite membership under another name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 C’mon guys, Starmer’s Labour would have offered the exact same as Johnson’s tories, but with a promise not to **** your missus and break your ipad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 16 Moderator Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: C’mon guys, Starmer’s Labour would have offered the exact same as Johnson’s tories, but with a promise not to **** your missus and break your ipad. Hate to be the one but if it wasn't Corbyn, it would have been either Yvette Cooper or Andy Burnham (Most likely Cooper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 11 hours ago, Chindie said: Got to get the word out about the new Satan. People will fall for his lies if you don't. I'm asking this seriously. Has he actually done something to you or your family? The hate seems totally out of proportion with what he appears to be doing or saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 17 Moderator Share Posted February 17 Not sure I believe this. The reason Labour didn’t immediately suspend the Rochdale candidate was at the behest of Jewish Groups, the reasoning being that they didn’t want George Galloway being given a platform in parliament Thats the spin that appears to put about this weekend. Not sure why they are bothering at this late stage either, the story is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Blaming the jews for it will go down well 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 10:28, bickster said: Pretty sure I'm considered a Starmerite, as it currently stands I'm voting LibDem That lot have too much baggage from the coalition era for me. They enabled austerity. and the shit storm that followed the Brexit referendum. Neither of which would have happened if they’d shown any integrity. Edited February 17 by meregreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 17 Moderator Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, meregreen said: That lot have too much baggage from the coalition era for me. They enabled austerity. and the shit storm that followed the Brexit referendum. Neither of which would have happened if they’d shown any integrity. Agreed but I'm faced with a party I hate and will never vote for (Tories), a party I distrust but do not cross my red lines (LibDems - EU/PR) and a party I've voted for most of the time but do cross my two policy red lines (Labour) It’s a tough choice. Also I'm particularly wary of the size of majority Labour will get which I think is also very dangerous. Its really a three turd choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 46 minutes ago, bickster said: Agreed but I'm faced with a party I hate and will never vote for (Tories), a party I distrust but do not cross my red lines (LibDems - EU/PR) and a party I've voted for most of the time but do cross my two policy red lines (Labour) It’s a tough choice. Also I'm particularly wary of the size of majority Labour will get which I think is also very dangerous. Its really a three turd choice Well I’m a member of the Labour Party, so obviously I disagree. For what it’s worth, the Labour Party for me is the only real hope for the next generation, I speak as a Grandad too. If I look at the individuals in both main parties, then it’s a laughably one sided contest. My wife was an active helper in the Erdington By election last year. She got to meet a lot of big hitters, including Starmer, Rainer etc. She found them all to be pretty impressive in their desire to do what’s right for the country. She was very impressed by shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves. I hope she’s right, she’ll have a massive task in front of her. Edited February 17 by meregreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 17 Moderator Share Posted February 17 4 hours ago, bickster said: Agreed but I'm faced with a party I hate and will never vote for (Tories), a party I distrust but do not cross my red lines (LibDems - EU/PR) and a party I've voted for most of the time but do cross my two policy red lines (Labour) It’s a tough choice. Wouldn't the Greens be a better option than the LibDems? They don't cross your red lines and they're not the LibDems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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