markavfc40 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Lambert was held accountable, yet Sherwood seems to get absolved because of this transfer committee stuff, Genuine question but does he? I mean the guy paid the ultimate price by getting sacked so I don’t see how he has been absolved of any blame. My personal view of all this is that I am not sure that those on the transfer committee all sang from the same hymn sheet in terms of the players who came in last summer. Sherwood said when he was still here that he gave the go ahead to all the players that came in but whether some were anywhere near to being his preferred choice/top targets is anyone’s guess. For what it is worth I think a number of them won’t have been. I don’t believe 50 odd mill to spend on a squad that finished 17th and lost Delph, Benteke, Vlaar, Cleverley, Given and a number of other fringe players from it was enough but for me something went drastically wrong still as it should have been enough to put together a squad that could at least compete to survive. The squad we assembled though is diabolical. Riley apparently played a significant part in putting that squad together and I would therefore be extremely surprised if he was part of any committee responsible for undertaking the rebuilding job that is needed on it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, markavfc40 said: Genuine question but does he? I mean the guy paid the ultimate price by getting sacked so I don’t see how he has been absolved of any blame. Yes he does. Not by the person who sacked him, but my post obviously wasn't referring solely to Tom Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, Stevo985 said: Yes he does. Not by the person who sacked him, but my post obviously wasn't referring solely to Tom Fox. Who absolves him? some fans, some reporters? that happens mate. I think the vast majority of fans see him as having played a significant part in the squad we assembled last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Who absolves him? some fans, some reporters? that happens mate. A lot of fans and a lot of reporters. And pundits. And opposition fans. You say it happens, but it doesn't. Or at least it didn't until last summer's window and certainly not to the degree it does now. Edited May 23, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 They should both be blamed. However, it's very hard for us to allocate blame accurately when we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. For all we know Riley might have found some incredible players, and Sherwood vetoed all of them to sign Lescott and Richards etc. Or conversely, Riley might have sat on his arse all window and suggested Lescott and Richards, which forced Sherwood to find his own playersoff his own back with no support whatsoever and he was th eone who found Amavi, Ayew etc. None of us know. The fact Riley is still here possibly suggests he wasn't the biggest problem in all of this. It might also be totally irrelevant. What I've always argued is that it was only until very recently that managers at our club weren't held accountable for their signings, regardless of who's fault it might actually be. Lambert was held accountable, yet Sherwood seems to get absolved because of this transfer committee stuff, even though by all accounts that's how we, and most other premier league clubs, have operated for some time. From what I was told last week the main culprit for our poor recruitment was Hendrik Almstadt. He vetoed the players Sherwood had identified in favour of his own targets and Lerner chose to back him over Sherwood. Allegedly he was one reason for Delph's u turn, Benteke leaving and Cleverly opting for Everton. If what I was told is credible then it partly explains why Riley hasn't left yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: A lot of fans and a lot of reporters. And pundits. And opposition fans. You say it happens, but it doesn't. Or at least it didn't until last summer's window and certainly not to the degree it does now. I disagree certainly on the fans. I think it is such a small amount of supporters, certainly as far as I can tell, that would absolve him of any blame for the signings last summer, that it is hardly worth commenting on. I mean you will always get differing opinions and extremes. You will also get fans who place the blame solely at his door for the signings last summer. There is a middle ground though, and I think that is where the vast majority of us find ourselves, and that is simply to say he played a significant part, alongside others, in our recruitment last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Robbie09 said: From what I was told last week the main culprit for our poor recruitment was Hendrik Almstadt. He vetoed the players Sherwood had identified in favour of his own targets and Lerner chose to back him over Sherwood. Allegedly he was one reason for Delph's u turn, Benteke leaving and Cleverly opting for Everton. If what I was told is credible then it partly explains why Riley hasn't left yet. Not saying you have been misinformed but that does go against the theory that Almstadt had nothing to do with transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Robbie09 said: From what I was told last week the main culprit for our poor recruitment was Hendrik Almstadt. He vetoed the players Sherwood had identified in favour of his own targets and Lerner chose to back him over Sherwood. Allegedly he was one reason for Delph's u turn, Benteke leaving and Cleverly opting for Everton. If what I was told is credible then it partly explains why Riley hasn't left yet. No offence, but this sounds like ITK nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Robbie09 said: From what I was told last week the main culprit for our poor recruitment was Hendrik Almstadt. He vetoed the players Sherwood had identified in favour of his own targets and Lerner chose to back him over Sherwood. Allegedly he was one reason for Delph's u turn, Benteke leaving and Cleverly opting for Everton. If what I was told is credible then it partly explains why Riley hasn't left yet. So if Almstradt was responsible for all of that what the hell does Reilly actually do?? I think he is just as accountable as him and Sherwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 No offence, but this sounds like ITK nonsense. No offence taken. What i was told re the goings on at Villa make sense so I don't doubt the validity of what I was told. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Robbie09 said: No offence taken. What i was told re the goings on at Villa make sense so I don't doubt the validity of what I was told. Fair enough. Would be interested to hear your source. A lot of sources seem to say that Almstadt had nothing directly to do with transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Fair enough. Would be interested to hear your source. A lot of sources seem to say that Almstadt had nothing directly to do with transfers. PM me dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I've met @Robbie09 and I can vouch that he is both scrupulous and incredibly handsome. Use that information as you wish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: So if Almstradt was responsible for all of that what the hell does Reilly actually do?? I think he is just as accountable as him and Sherwood Reilly is an analyst. If Sherwood said he wanted Cambiasso for example then Reilly will use stats to see players who do similar things on the pitch to Cambiasso, therefore if Cambiasso says he doesn't want to come or someone says we can't afford the wages then Reilly will provide a list of people with similar attributes. At this point the alternate players are supposed to be scouted and then a decision is made usually by the manager to say yes or no to the alternative. Allegedly Almstadt and not Sherwood was deciding on these alternate players through statistical analysis and not actually watching any of them as we have no scouting network at all. All the players Sherwood was keen on were supposedly blocked due to financial restrictions from Lerner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Why would Riley, just like Sherwood in the reverse sense, get credit for Amavi, Gana and Ayew but not ripped for Lescott and Richards? With a lack of evidence to the contrary they both should be held accountable for all summer signings, rather than people picking and choosing who signed who to suit their particular opinion. Edit - it was, for the main part, a disastrous window that drove the final nail in the coffin. I'm surprised Riley is still here. Because I doubt very much those 2 needed any form of scouting. If you wasn't aware of them 2 players you shouldn't be in football. In hindsight Richards should've been scouted as he looks like a carthorse unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 13 minutes ago, KHV said: Reilly is an analyst. If Sherwood said he wanted Cambiasso for example then Reilly will use stats to see players who do similar things on the pitch to Cambiasso, therefore if Cambiasso says he doesn't want to come or someone says we can't afford the wages then Reilly will provide a list of people with similar attributes. At this point the alternate players are supposed to be scouted and then a decision is made usually by the manager to say yes or no to the alternative. Allegedly Almstadt and not Sherwood was deciding on these alternate players through statistical analysis and not actually watching any of them as we have no scouting network at all. All the players Sherwood was keen on were supposedly blocked due to financial restrictions from Lerner. Lot of guesswork and assumptions based on rumour there! Stats are used by every club but I doubt any club solely uses them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, dn1982 said: Lot of guesswork and assumptions based on rumour there! Stats are used by every club but I doubt any club solely uses them! I think everyone would doubt that, however this was Aston Villa under Randy Lerner. I would not rule anything out, and according to Hollis's review Almstadt and Fox left primarily due to our disasterous summer recruitment so I would not be entirely surprised if the entire process was a total shambles and far from what you would expect from a professional organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 9 hours ago, markavfc40 said: Genuine question but does he? I mean the guy paid the ultimate price by getting sacked so I don’t see how he has been absolved of any blame. My personal view of all this is that I am not sure that those on the transfer committee all sang from the same hymn sheet in terms of the players who came in last summer. Sherwood said when he was still here that he gave the go ahead to all the players that came in but whether some were anywhere near to being his preferred choice/top targets is anyone’s guess. For what it is worth I think a number of them won’t have been. I don’t believe 50 odd mill to spend on a squad that finished 17th and lost Delph, Benteke, Vlaar, Cleverley, Given and a number of other fringe players from it was enough but for me something went drastically wrong still as it should have been enough to put together a squad that could at least compete to survive. The squad we assembled though is diabolical. Riley apparently played a significant part in putting that squad together and I would therefore be extremely surprised if he was part of any committee responsible for undertaking the rebuilding job that is needed on it now. Mark I have a suspicion that TS was cosmetic in his claim that he approved of the players coming in.....I suspect he was so miffed at having his choices dismissed he just said yes to anything. Not saying that is right, just my thoughts.....I think he thought he was being undermined so said to himself.....do what you like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 7 hours ago, KHV said: Reilly is an analyst. If Sherwood said he wanted Cambiasso for example then Reilly will use stats to see players who do similar things on the pitch to Cambiasso, therefore if Cambiasso says he doesn't want to come or someone says we can't afford the wages then Reilly will provide a list of people with similar attributes. At this point the alternate players are supposed to be scouted and then a decision is made usually by the manager to say yes or no to the alternative. Allegedly Almstadt and not Sherwood was deciding on these alternate players through statistical analysis and not actually watching any of them as we have no scouting network at all. All the players Sherwood was keen on were supposedly blocked due to financial restrictions from Lerner. The danger with statistical analysis in isolation of anything else ......The stats do seem plausible to the man of authority who knows no better. Its like selling Sales Training programmes to Managing Directors who haven't cut their teeth in selling......Its all so plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 hours ago, KHV said: I think everyone would doubt that, however this was Aston Villa under Randy Lerner. I would not rule anything out, and according to Hollis's review Almstadt and Fox left primarily due to our disasterous summer recruitment so I would not be entirely surprised if the entire process was a total shambles and far from what you would expect from a professional organisation. They were sacked because we got relegated if Riley was so at fault he'd be gone by now aswell. It's not like we are signing anyone currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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