The Tim Sherwood Thread

[icouldtelltheworld]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

He's honestly my favourite pundit, and you have to commend his humility of realizing that he's good at this and not management and sticking to it. It'll take the likes of Gerrard and Lampard probably a decade to come to a similar realization. 

You've actually got a point here in fairness

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Young players usually go on loan to the lower leagues to get familiar with men's football, and invariably end up earning their playing time, or lack thereof on merit. Managers, for whatever reason, aren't held to the same standards by their employers. A lot of them are hired with woefully inadequate CV's, like Sherwood and no amount of time would change the fact that they're just not cut out for this level and we can't just send them on loan to the lower leagues to gain experience. I mean, this is something they could do themselves...but they don't, do they? Hence my point. Ego seems to be a big obstacle for them to overcome. Could they become good managers after gaining proper experience? Absolutely. Will they? I'd wager probably not.

Young players go on loan, yes.  Managers can't do the same thing.  There aren't many managers who actively work their way through the ranks from lower leagues to the Premier League so they have to try and get these big jobs.  If Premier League clubs took chances on talented young managers from lower leagues, then more would do it - but fans would be in uproar if Aston Villa hired, say, Steven Schumacher as their manager.

Gerrard was successful at Rangers but not here.  He's immediately a "shit manager".

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Young players go on loan, yes.  Managers can't do the same thing.  There aren't many managers who actively work their way through the ranks from lower leagues to the Premier League so they have to try and get these big jobs.  If Premier League clubs took chances on talented young managers from lower leagues, then more would do it - but fans would be in uproar if Aston Villa hired, say, Steven Schumacher as their manager.

Gerrard was successful at Rangers but not here.  He's immediately a "shit manager".

Well yes, and that's the problem. It's probably why there's such a dearth in English talent at the top level. The criteria for getting the job often ends up being name recognition over anything quantifiable. 

Not that I fully agree that Villa fans would be in uproar over hiring a young manager moving up through the leagues. Paul Lambert was a good example. Almost unanimous excitement over his appointment. Also, apart from Arteta at Arsenal, pretty much every permanent manager in the PL right now including our very own cut their teeth in the lower leagues. There aren't too many success stories of guys whose first jobs were big top flight gigs. 

On Gerrard, I haven't said he's a shit manager. Just that he isn't currently cut out for PL football.

[Villan_of_oz]

Sherwood and Gerrard have at least one thing in common, they are both shit managers.... Rangers won a league when Celtic were at their lowest, big deal. Beale probably won it on his own, Gerrard took the press conferences.

Credit to Sherwood for never applying for another job after the Swindon debacle.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Villan_of_oz

[icouldtelltheworld]

44 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Sherwood and Gerrard have at least one thing in common, they are both shit managers.... Rangers won a league when Celtic were at their lowest, big deal. Beale probably won it on his own, Gerrard took the press conferences.

Credit to Sherwood for never applying for another job after the Swindon debacle.

 

St Johnstone won more trophies than Rangers during Gerrard's time in Scotland 

[Stevo985]

On 26/03/2023 at 21:19, AVTuco said:

I'm a fan of Tim. Loved him here. Brought some swagger to a club in desperate need of some. 

One of the worst managers we've ever had. There's a very good argument that he was THE worst.

An absolute joke of a manager. Incompetent, embarrassing and a massive word removed.

Football is a better place since he realised he was too shit to be a manage

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Well yes, and that's the problem. It's probably why there's such a dearth in English talent at the top level. The criteria for getting the job often ends up being name recognition over anything quantifiable. 

Not that I fully agree that Villa fans would be in uproar over hiring a young manager moving up through the leagues. Paul Lambert was a good example. Almost unanimous excitement over his appointment. Also, apart from Arteta at Arsenal, pretty much every permanent manager in the PL right now including our very own cut their teeth in the lower leagues. There aren't too many success stories of guys whose first jobs were big top flight gigs. 

On Gerrard, I haven't said he's a shit manager. Just that he isn't currently cut out for PL football.

 

12 hours ago, Keyblade said:

He's honestly my favourite pundit, and you have to commend his humility of realizing that he's good at this and not management and sticking to it. It'll take the likes of Gerrard and Lampard probably a decade to come to a similar realization. 

First bit in bold, it's not really true is it?  You're probably talking about foreign managers rather than British ones, but they're generally just brought in having already been successful abroad (Guardiola, Klopp, Ten Hag, Emery, Lopetegui).  Brendan Rodgers was seen as some sort of Mourinho-esque genius as an assistant under him and got a Championship job off the back of it.  Steve Cooper worked with English youth teams and got a Championship job off the back of it.  Gary O'Neil has jumped straight into a Premier League role.  Thomas Frank was brought in as an assistant and then kept on after we hired Dean Smith.  Ruben Selles was brought into Southampton as an assistant manager and has got the job now.  Sean Dyche got a Championship job off the back of being assistant manager at Watford.  These aren't people working their way up, they're just getting decent jobs straight away.

I suppose "cutting teeth in lower leagues" probably only really applies to Eddie Howe and possibly David Moyes?  Can't remember where Preston were when he took charge.  Of course, there's nothing wrong with picking managers who have been successful elsewhere or giving an assistant manager a chance for them to do well, but let's not pretend that Premier League managers tend to work their way through our league system.  They just don't.

 

Second bold bit, you've very much implied he's not good at management rather than "not PL right now".  Granted, you haven't used "shit"  

[HanoiVillan]

12 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Second bold bit, you've very much implied he's not good at management rather than "not PL right now".  Granted, you haven't used "shit"  

It's hard to think of many more defensible claims. The sky is blue. The Earth isn't flat. Death comes to us all. Tim Sherwood is bad at management. 

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's hard to think of many more defensible claims. The sky is blue. The Earth isn't flat. Death comes to us all. Tim Sherwood is bad at management. 

All very good, but not at all related to Steven Gerrard?

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

All very good, but not at all related to Steven Gerrard?

Probably should talk about him in the relevant thread?

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Probably should talk about him in the relevant thread?

It's one line in a post about managers generally, linked to Sherwood giving up on management

[Keyblade]

25 minutes ago, bobzy said:

 

First bit in bold, it's not really true is it?  You're probably talking about foreign managers rather than British ones, but they're generally just brought in having already been successful abroad (Guardiola, Klopp, Ten Hag, Emery, Lopetegui).  Brendan Rodgers was seen as some sort of Mourinho-esque genius as an assistant under him and got a Championship job off the back of it.  Steve Cooper worked with English youth teams and got a Championship job off the back of it.  Gary O'Neil has jumped straight into a Premier League role.  Thomas Frank was brought in as an assistant and then kept on after we hired Dean Smith.  Ruben Selles was brought into Southampton as an assistant manager and has got the job now.  Sean Dyche got a Championship job off the back of being assistant manager at Watford.  These aren't people working their way up, they're just getting decent jobs straight away.

I suppose "cutting teeth in lower leagues" probably only really applies to Eddie Howe and possibly David Moyes?  Can't remember where Preston were when he took charge.  Of course, there's nothing wrong with picking managers who have been successful elsewhere or giving an assistant manager a chance for them to do well, but let's not pretend that Premier League managers tend to work their way through our league system.  They just don't.

 

Second bold bit, you've very much implied he's not good at management rather than "not PL right now".  Granted, you haven't used "shit"  

It's called a prediction mate. I don't think they will ever amount to much, for reasons I've already explained. 

(Like Sherwood) They won't want to drop down the leagues and build themselves back up. But (unlike Sherwood) I can see Gerrard and Lampard continually rocking up at PL clubs over the years and invariably failing at each job.

Also, context is important. The whole point I was making was that these guys see themselves as top flight managers and are loathe to drop down the leagues to gain experience.

Quote

A lot of them are hired with woefully inadequate CV's, like Sherwood and no amount of time would change the fact that they're just not cut out for this level and we can't just send them on loan to the lower leagues to gain experience

In this context, they are just not very good. Shit even, yes. Are they shit managers in the general sense of the term? I wouldn't say so. I think they could do a job at say Portsmouth, or indeed Rangers. Sherwood I think is just shit, period though. 

[Zatman]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

One of the worst managers we've ever had. There's a very good argument that he was THE worst.

An absolute joke of a manager. Incompetent, embarrassing and a massive word removed.

Football is a better place since he realised he was too shit to be a manage

I dont think we ever had or will have anybody as bad as the idiot who managed us full time before Unai

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

I dont think we ever had or will have anybody as bad as the idiot who managed us full time before Unai

If it wasn’t for him then I wouldn’t have said “there’s an argument”, I’d have said Sherwood WAS the worst. 
 

Gerrard is definitely on the conversation

[HanoiVillan]

We used to be managed by this guy, in the Barclays Premier League. 

[MrBlack]

7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

We used to be managed by this guy, in the Barclays Premier League. 

Said for effect and clicks. Exactly why he isn't a manager at the moment and, if he was, why he'd be the laughing stock of the league.

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

We used to be managed by this guy, in the Barclays Premier League. 

He's a genuine **** idiot

A joke that he ever had a Premier League job. Embarassing that one of them was with us

[The Fun Factory]

On 28/03/2023 at 19:44, sidcow said:

I remain absolutely flummoxed by this. 

Swagger?. He was a talentless chancer who was a massive part of bringing the club to it's knees. 

I just don't understand the fanboy cult. It's like people who lose their cash to a con man then still refuse to believe such a top bloke really took it all. 

He gave us the best day out as a Villa fan between about 2010 and 2019 at Wembley when we beat Liverpool. Now that could have been a complete fluke but at the time it felt cathartic after the years of absolute shit under Lambert. Best to forget about the 6-1 tanking at Southampton and then the final itself.  

He had a better win percentage at Villa than Gerrard. Just thought I would throw that one out.

[sidcow]

11 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

He gave us the best day out as a Villa fan between about 2010 and 2019 at Wembley when we beat Liverpool. Now that could have been a complete fluke but at the time it felt cathartic after the years of absolute shit under Lambert. Best to forget about the 6-1 tanking at Southampton and then the final itself.  

He had a better win percentage at Villa than Gerrard. Just thought I would throw that one out.

OK, you are right.  Sherwood is a fabulous manager and fully deserves all the adoration he receives on here.  It's just a complete mystery why Real Madrid or Manchester City or Hull haven't employed him since.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

OK, you are right.  Sherwood is a fabulous manager and fully deserves all the adoration he receives on here.  It's just a complete mystery why Real Madrid or Manchester City or Hull haven't employed him since.

He didnt say anything like that at all