Condimentalist Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 This is why I think Sherwood will get us over the line this year, but also why I expect things to go awry at some stage next season. What do you count as 'awry'? I ask because the term could be a bit of a 'catch-all'. Is it: 10 to 15 points from 20 games 'awry' or half a dozen games without a win including a heavy defeat or two 'awry'? I'd count the former as 'awry' - effectively demonstrating the appointment of Sherwood was a mistake past the short term. I wouldn't count the later as 'awry' as I'm expecting a bumpy ride for the next season or so. Good question brommy. Again, it's all about context of course, but I do expect us to go on a poor run and I'm not sure how Sherwood will react to that. Personally, I don't expect it to be pretty. One thing I doubt we'll see is a long, protracted deflating balloon of a season like we've had this year. If we hit 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce Sherwood will be going off at everybody except himself, and I expect that to hasten his departure as he'll burn his bridges with the players and quite possibly the board. To continue the increasingly stretched metaphor, it will be more like when you let a balloon go and it flies around making a farting sound and spraying spit everywhere. At some stage next season, I expect that to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Lerner watching on.. Gheyest coat ever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 This is why I think Sherwood will get us over the line this year, but also why I expect things to go awry at some stage next season. What do you count as 'awry'? I ask because the term could be a bit of a 'catch-all'. Is it: 10 to 15 points from 20 games 'awry' or half a dozen games without a win including a heavy defeat or two 'awry'? I'd count the former as 'awry' - effectively demonstrating the appointment of Sherwood was a mistake past the short term. I wouldn't count the later as 'awry' as I'm expecting a bumpy ride for the next season or so. Good question brommy. Again, it's all about context of course, but I do expect us to go on a poor run and I'm not sure how Sherwood will react to that. Personally, I don't expect it to be pretty. One thing I doubt we'll see is a long, protracted deflating balloon of a season like we've had this year. If we hit 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce Sherwood will be going off at everybody except himself, and I expect that to hasten his departure as he'll burn his bridges with the players and quite possibly the board. To continue the increasingly stretched metaphor, it will be more like when you let a balloon go and it flies around making a farting sound and spraying spit everywhere. At some stage next season, I expect that to happen I'm not sure your prediction of impending failure is worthy of a big grin! I only expect Sherwood to go down fighting if he is close to my first definition of 'awry'. Whilst I hope that doesn't happen, I'd rather he 'went off at everybody' than stick with submissive mumblings. At least he'd make the decision to get rid easy. Looking past a couple of seasons, the chances of any Premier League managerial career going awry increases. The average tenure of 2.14 years demonstrates that it doesn't take a Nostradamus to predict Sherwood at Villa will go 'awry' at some point. It could be argued that he'll be better than the average Premier League manager if he stays past April 2017. Anyway, I'm sure you wish Sherwood every success at our great club! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Lerner watching on.. Gheyest coat ever Are you mocking the koala bear clinging on Randy's back? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 That fact which is your opinion. Well, if you look at Lambert's record, it is a fact. What is a fact? That he had a poor record? Yes, that's a fact. In a context free world where everything else was equal, that would also make him one of our worst ever managers. A context free world doesn't exist, however. I'm not getting into another tedious debate about Lambert here, but stating he was one of the worst managers we've had is an opinion only, certainly not a fact. No need to debate. It is a fact that his record makes him one of our worst managers ever. You already admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 That fact which is your opinion. Well, if you look at Lambert's record, it is a fact. What is a fact? That he had a poor record? Yes, that's a fact. In a context free world where everything else was equal, that would also make him one of our worst ever managers. A context free world doesn't exist, however. I'm not getting into another tedious debate about Lambert here, but stating he was one of the worst managers we've had is an opinion only, certainly not a fact. No need to debate. It is a fact that his record makes him one of our worst managers ever. You already admit that. It's a fact that you either haven't read what I've written or you are incapable of understanding it. Either way, I won't be going over it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 This is why I think Sherwood will get us over the line this year, but also why I expect things to go awry at some stage next season. What do you count as 'awry'? I ask because the term could be a bit of a 'catch-all'. Is it: 10 to 15 points from 20 games 'awry' or half a dozen games without a win including a heavy defeat or two 'awry'? I'd count the former as 'awry' - effectively demonstrating the appointment of Sherwood was a mistake past the short term. I wouldn't count the later as 'awry' as I'm expecting a bumpy ride for the next season or so. Good question brommy. Again, it's all about context of course, but I do expect us to go on a poor run and I'm not sure how Sherwood will react to that. Personally, I don't expect it to be pretty. One thing I doubt we'll see is a long, protracted deflating balloon of a season like we've had this year. If we hit 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce Sherwood will be going off at everybody except himself, and I expect that to hasten his departure as he'll burn his bridges with the players and quite possibly the board. To continue the increasingly stretched metaphor, it will be more like when you let a balloon go and it flies around making a farting sound and spraying spit everywhere. At some stage next season, I expect that to happen Does the smile indicate you'd be pleased if it went tits up for Sherwood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) This is why I think Sherwood will get us over the line this year, but also why I expect things to go awry at some stage next season. What do you count as 'awry'? I ask because the term could be a bit of a 'catch-all'. Is it: 10 to 15 points from 20 games 'awry' or half a dozen games without a win including a heavy defeat or two 'awry'? I'd count the former as 'awry' - effectively demonstrating the appointment of Sherwood was a mistake past the short term. I wouldn't count the later as 'awry' as I'm expecting a bumpy ride for the next season or so. Good question brommy. Again, it's all about context of course, but I do expect us to go on a poor run and I'm not sure how Sherwood will react to that. Personally, I don't expect it to be pretty. One thing I doubt we'll see is a long, protracted deflating balloon of a season like we've had this year. If we hit 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce Sherwood will be going off at everybody except himself, and I expect that to hasten his departure as he'll burn his bridges with the players and quite possibly the board. To continue the increasingly stretched metaphor, it will be more like when you let a balloon go and it flies around making a farting sound and spraying spit everywhere. At some stage next season, I expect that to happen I'm not sure your prediction of impending failure is worthy of a big grin! I only expect Sherwood to go down fighting if he is close to my first definition of 'awry'. Whilst I hope that doesn't happen, I'd rather he 'went off at everybody' than stick with submissive mumblings. At least he'd make the decision to get rid easy. Looking past a couple of seasons, the chances of any Premier League managerial career going awry increases. The average tenure of 2.14 years demonstrates that it doesn't take a Nostradamus to predict Sherwood at Villa will go 'awry' at some point. It could be argued that he'll be better than the average Premier League manager if he stays past April 2017. Anyway, I'm sure you wish Sherwood every success at our great club! Sorry, the grin wasn't for it going balls up for Sherwood at all, just for my ludicrous metaphor. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong. I suspect my instinctive dislike for him on a personal level will dissipate pretty quickly if he brings success, or even relative success to my football club. And I agree that he will make it easy to sack him if we're on a bad run. I suppose that gives me some degree of comfort, in a weird way. I'll be amazed if he's with us at the end of 2016/17, but you never know. Edited February 18, 2015 by PatrickCousens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 That fact which is your opinion. Well, if you look at Lambert's record, it is a fact. What is a fact? That he had a poor record? Yes, that's a fact. In a context free world where everything else was equal, that would also make him one of our worst ever managers. A context free world doesn't exist, however. I'm not getting into another tedious debate about Lambert here, but stating he was one of the worst managers we've had is an opinion only, certainly not a fact. No need to debate. It is a fact that his record makes him one of our worst managers ever. You already admit that. It's a fact that you either haven't read what I've written or you are incapable of understanding it. Either way, I won't be going over it again. I understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 This is why I think Sherwood will get us over the line this year, but also why I expect things to go awry at some stage next season. What do you count as 'awry'? I ask because the term could be a bit of a 'catch-all'. Is it: 10 to 15 points from 20 games 'awry' or half a dozen games without a win including a heavy defeat or two 'awry'? I'd count the former as 'awry' - effectively demonstrating the appointment of Sherwood was a mistake past the short term. I wouldn't count the later as 'awry' as I'm expecting a bumpy ride for the next season or so. Good question brommy. Again, it's all about context of course, but I do expect us to go on a poor run and I'm not sure how Sherwood will react to that. Personally, I don't expect it to be pretty. One thing I doubt we'll see is a long, protracted deflating balloon of a season like we've had this year. If we hit 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce Sherwood will be going off at everybody except himself, and I expect that to hasten his departure as he'll burn his bridges with the players and quite possibly the board. To continue the increasingly stretched metaphor, it will be more like when you let a balloon go and it flies around making a farting sound and spraying spit everywhere. At some stage next season, I expect that to happen I'm not sure your prediction of impending failure is worthy of a big grin! I only expect Sherwood to go down fighting if he is close to my first definition of 'awry'. Whilst I hope that doesn't happen, I'd rather he 'went off at everybody' than stick with submissive mumblings. At least he'd make the decision to get rid easy. Looking past a couple of seasons, the chances of any Premier League managerial career going awry increases. The average tenure of 2.14 years demonstrates that it doesn't take a Nostradamus to predict Sherwood at Villa will go 'awry' at some point. It could be argued that he'll be better than the average Premier League manager if he stays past April 2017. Anyway, I'm sure you wish Sherwood every success at our great club! Sorry, the grin wasn't for it going balls up for Sherwood at all, just for my ludicrous metaphor. I'd like nothing more than for him to prove me wrong. I suspect my instinctive dislike for him on a personal level will dissipate pretty quickly if he brings success, or even relative success to my football club. And I agree that he will make it easy to sack him if we're on a bad run. I suppose that gives me some degree of comfort, in a weird way. I'll be amazed if he's with us at the end of 2016/17, but you never know. Pretty much what I see - short term bounce - should get us over the line. Then he will need to add \ replace to the team - he's totally untested in the transfer market - in fact depending on where you ready he hasn't done much coaching at all. Now hecould be an untapped genius , or the villa role could just suit him down to the ground. But as in the post above Id expect things to unravel pretty spectacularly by 16/17 ....all IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Well the club gives managers a lot of time; sometimes it can work sometimes it won't but he will be given time (providing we stay up). I wouldn't worry about his ability in the market yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 18, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think it's clear that the club are trying to put a structure in place whereby the manager can concentrate on coaching first and foremost. Riley will head a team that hunts down the players he might want based on the deficiencies they identify within the squad, they work together to nail the right one(s) down. Bobs your uncle and Gabby is your aunt. I know it all sounds a bit "continental" and scary to us, but it does work. If you want an example close to home then look at Southampton. The "manager" comes and goes, the philosophy lives on. At least, that is the dream. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Well the club gives managers a lot of time; sometimes it can work sometimes it won't but he will be given time (providing we stay up). I wouldn't worry about his ability in the market yet. Quite right - first things first, lets beat Stoke, Swansea and Sunderland - that will put us on a good footing to stay up - we have the players to win those games... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think it's clear that the club are trying to put a structure in place whereby the manager can concentrate on coaching first and foremost. Riley will head a team that hunts down the players he might want based on the deficiencies they identify within the squad, they work together to nail the right one(s) down. Bobs your uncle and Gabby is your aunt. I know it all sounds a bit "continental" and scary to us, but it does work. If you want an example close to home then look at Southampton. The "manager" comes and goes, the philosophy lives on. At least, that is the dream. I would love the club to be moving towards this - but almost everything I see suggests we aren't. I genuinely think the plan was to keep Lambert until about a week ago .....then the club wake up, sack him, and recruit the easiest replacement. No evidence of a long term strategy for me. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think it's clear that the club are trying to put a structure in place whereby the manager can concentrate on coaching first and foremost. Riley will head a team that hunts down the players he might want based on the deficiencies they identify within the squad, they work together to nail the right one(s) down. Bobs your uncle and Gabby is your aunt. I know it all sounds a bit "continental" and scary to us, but it does work. If you want an example close to home then look at Southampton. The "manager" comes and goes, the philosophy lives on. At least, that is the dream. I would love the club to be moving towards this - but almost everything I see suggests we aren't. I genuinely think the plan was to keep Lambert until about a week ago .....then the club wake up, sack him, and recruit the easiest replacement. No evidence of a long term strategy for me. YMMV Keeping Lambert wouldn't mean the plan was different. I think we're now working in the way that DIDD suggests and its about time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 18, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2015 Stop talking about L.... This is Tim's thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think it's clear that the club are trying to put a structure in place whereby the manager can concentrate on coaching first and foremost. Riley will head a team that hunts down the players he might want based on the deficiencies they identify within the squad, they work together to nail the right one(s) down. Bobs your uncle and Gabby is your aunt. I know it all sounds a bit "continental" and scary to us, but it does work. If you want an example close to home then look at Southampton. The "manager" comes and goes, the philosophy lives on. At least, that is the dream. I would love the club to be moving towards this - but almost everything I see suggests we aren't. I genuinely think the plan was to keep Lambert until about a week ago .....then the club wake up, sack him, and recruit the easiest replacement. No evidence of a long term strategy for me. YMMV Even though Fox is now clearly the man in the big chair, Paddy Riley is heading up recruitment, we are looking for a Director of Football Operations and Paul Lambert has been sacked? I think everything suggests what we hope is happening. In fact, we are unlikely to get anymore evidence than that which we have already been given which points firmly at this. It was a plan formulating before Lambert got sacked, we're only really noticing it now that particular cloud has been lifted. Whether it works for us, as always, will depend on the personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think it's clear that the club are trying to put a structure in place whereby the manager can concentrate on coaching first and foremost. Riley will head a team that hunts down the players he might want based on the deficiencies they identify within the squad, they work together to nail the right one(s) down. Bobs your uncle and Gabby is your aunt. I know it all sounds a bit "continental" and scary to us, but it does work. If you want an example close to home then look at Southampton. The "manager" comes and goes, the philosophy lives on. At least, that is the dream. I would love the club to be moving towards this - but almost everything I see suggests we aren't. I genuinely think the plan was to keep Lambert until about a week ago .....then the club wake up, sack him, and recruit the easiest replacement. No evidence of a long term strategy for me. YMMV Even though Fox is now clearly the man in the big chair, Paddy Riley is heading up recruitment, we are looking for a Director of Football Operations and Paul Lambert has been sacked? I think everything suggests what we hope is happening. In fact, we are unlikely to get anymore evidence than that which we have already been given which points firmly at this. It was a plan formulating before Lambert got sacked, we're only really noticing it now that particular cloud has been lifted. Whether it works for us, as always, will depend on the personnel. Thats one hell of a disclaimer ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Well the club gives managers a lot of time; sometimes it can work sometimes it won't but he will be given time (providing we stay up). That was certainly true under Faulkner/Lerner but I'm not certain that this will be the case now Fox has a more prominant role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz316 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Lol it makes me laugh that anyone thinks there's any kind of "plan" in place at the villa, particular by starting off saying "I think it's clear to see.." What's clear to see is that the club have no idea what they're doing, have no football men in place to actual run things and the owner is simply scraping by until he can hopefully get shot of us. One thing I will say though is the marketing seems to be in place as the propaganda the club throw out seems to work on the more naieve of you. If Lerner/Fox etc had their way Lambert would still be here but the noise was simply too much in the end and they had to bite the bullet (one week Fox is saying we should see the bigger picture, next Lamberts gone. Any sign of a plan there?) So they then go out and pick up the first manager they can appoint without too much noise or cost and continue the craziness again, all the while Randy is hoping to get rid at the first opportunity, if we stay up as a result of the change then bonus as far as Randy is concerned. To say there's some kind of continental management structure being put in place is stupid, the club is firefighting and making decisions on the fly. The owner wants out and until that happens there is no long term plan at this club. We scraped a 2-1 win against a team bottom of the league and people think we're headed ina new direction with an owner who has a plan, behave yourself. Things may well be different on here come 5pm saturday, and at the end of FA cup quarter final we could well be in meltdown again, football is a fickle old game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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