The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Isa]

'End of the season' equates to two [league] games in this instance. 

 

 

 

[CrackpotForeigner]

'End of the season' equates to two [league] games in this instance. 

 

 

 

Not a lot of games, but we were supposedly released from the burdensome yolk of the previous manager. We'd just avoided relegation and were building towards a cup final. Where did all the good momentum go if it wasn't pissed away by a mouthy manager? He's since spent a fortune on players and we still show no signs of having a team who are prepared to bust their arse for the manager, we're seeing strange selections and substitutions, and we aren't winning games.

 

Tom Fox should be looking for a replacement now. Hopefully we won't need a replacement, but so far it looks likely that we will. Better to have someone lined up.

[Zatman]

Im sure Newcastle and Carver had probably a 15 point headstart on Tim when he took over, maybe its more of an achievement they finished over by us by a couple of points

[dukes]

Well i think what he did at the end of last season was remarkable given the players available to him. For that reason i will give him until mid December before i start calling for his head, and I am confident that i won't be calling for it then either.

 

Results have gone against us, the team are still gelling, and we've had injuries to the best two signings so far. We haven't had much luck, but flukey win and things suddenly look ok again, the margins are that tight.

 

Breathe everyone.

I think it's remarkable he managed to finish below John Carver's Newacastle.

very clever, but Newcastle were in tenth when Carver took over from Pardew in January, so as we were in the relegation zone when Sherwood took over in February it shouldn't be any kind of surprise they finished above us. But I don't suppose that common sense suits your agenda.

I think the point is that by the end of the season we were freefalling faster even than Newcastle, which is a bit of a worry when you're supposed to have momentum on your side.

I don't see that as valid. From where we were when he took over, he took us to safety and a cup final, that was something of a miracle.

 

by your logic, Mourinho should no longer be manager of Chelsea because all that matter is the last few games. 

 

As as I have said he deserves longer with these players before jumping the gun, it's reasonable to give him until mid December in my opinion.

[AvfcTheObsession]

The players available to him weren't that bad. He had two England midfielders in Delph and Cleverley, one of the best CFs in the league Benteke, and an experienced defender in Vlaar. The Southampton game was absolutely shocking, and then we couldn't break a rubbish, already relegated Burnley side down at home. The warning sides were there at the end of the campaign with the way we ended it with those games and the Cup final no show, albeit against better opposition. Most Villa fans were saying literally anyone other than Lambert would do better as the players weren't bottom 3 quality.

through no fault of his own they all left

Yeah I get that, I should have quoted the person I was mainly aiming my comment at, who said 'what Sherwood did last season was remarkable given the players at his disposal. They really weren't that bad, certainly better than at least 4/5 other squads in the league.

[TrentVilla]

Well i think what he did at the end of last season was remarkable given the players available to him. For that reason i will give him until mid December before i start calling for his head, and I am confident that i won't be calling for it then either.

 

Results have gone against us, the team are still gelling, and we've had injuries to the best two signings so far. We haven't had much luck, but flukey win and things suddenly look ok again, the margins are that tight.

 

Breathe everyone.

I think it's remarkable he managed to finish below John Carver's Newacastle.

very clever, but Newcastle were in tenth when Carver took over from Pardew in January, so as we were in the relegation zone when Sherwood took over in February it shouldn't be any kind of surprise they finished above us. But I don't suppose that common sense suits your agenda.

Please don't be so misguided as to think that only you or people that share your view have the monopoly on common sense. Oh and please stop accusing those who don't share your views of having an agenda.

In regards what I posted I was simply trying to illustrate in a quick way that Sherwood didn't do a remarkable job with us last season irrespective of us reaching Wembley. We had some very good results but we always had some very poor results.

He deserves credit and criticism for each but to claim what he did was remarkable is a bit of stretch in my opinion and I think probably the opinion of quite a few others.

I'm not against giving him more time but it doesn't mean I think that with more time he will turn this around. The faults I thought he had before he arrived here have only been confirmed in my view of him and I don't see that changing even if the results do.

I don't expect everyone to agree, that is football.

[Stevo985]

I agree it wasn't remarkable. 

It was enough. He did the job he was brought in to do and I don't think, given the position we were in, we could have asked for much more from him. I was very happy with him last season.

But that doesn't make the job he did remarkable. There are other managers who would have also kept us up. We weren't cut adrift.

[Grasshopper]

He kept us up

After the Hull game we were only going down with Lambert. The FA Cup run was a bonus (except the Final itself)

Anyone could have kept us up with that squad over a season, but Tim only had the last quarter with a Squad completely shot of any will or confidence. Respect to him for that.

Maybe he has shot his bolt and his lack of year on year experience is now telling.

On paper we look OK, Play to Gestede's strengths and we may get 12-15 goals out of him, Sinclair also knows where the goal is. What happens after that is anyones guess.

We missed a trick with Ings and/or Austin (if they'd have come).

From now on in Tim needs to show some balls and have a go. He'll have nothing to lose as he had his hurrah last season.

[bobzy]

I agree it wasn't remarkable. 

It was enough. He did the job he was brought in to do and I don't think, given the position we were in, we could have asked for much more from him. I was very happy with him last season.

But that doesn't make the job he did remarkable. There are other managers who would have also kept us up. We weren't cut adrift.

Having discussed at some length how players are affected by being slated in the media, do you not think their form up until Lambert's sacking would've played a part on the pitch?

I think that Leicester cup game was something.  Nothing miraculous, but certainly remarkable.  The turnaround was huge and was (apparently) down to Sherwood.  There probably were other managers who would've kept us up - but there were many more who would've taken us down.

I don't think we've been that bad this season overall, either.  There's just really basic things we should be doing better.  We don't look anywhere near "lost" a la that Hull match.

[Stevo985]

I agree it wasn't remarkable. 

It was enough. He did the job he was brought in to do and I don't think, given the position we were in, we could have asked for much more from him. I was very happy with him last season.

But that doesn't make the job he did remarkable. There are other managers who would have also kept us up. We weren't cut adrift.

Having discussed at some length how players are affected by being slated in the media, do you not think their form up until Lambert's sacking would've played a part on the pitch?

I think that Leicester cup game was something.  Nothing miraculous, but certainly remarkable.  The turnaround was huge and was (apparently) down to Sherwood.  There probably were other managers who would've kept us up - but there were many more who would've taken us down.

I don't think we've been that bad this season overall, either.  There's just really basic things we should be doing better.  We don't look anywhere near "lost" a la that Hull match.

I don't really understand your first point.

The rest of your post doesn't disagree with anything I've said. He did a good job. He isn't doing a good job currently. I don't consider keeping us up remarkable, but I recognise it as a good achievement.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Stevo985

[romavillan]

It certainly could have gone a lot worse after the Hull game. 

It's a difficult situation really, should we lose again in front of our own fans to a good Stoke side that are more than capable of turning us over then it's hard to see where the run is going to end as we have tougher fixtures on the horizon. It's frustrating because we look to have a lot of potentially good players capable of actually playing some attractive football but should we find ourselves on 4 points from 12 games we will probably be rock bottom and the wheels could really come off the wagon spectacularly. Instead of forging a winning group Sherwood could well be looking at a disparate mess all blaming each other and all wanting out asap. That's a QPR style recipe for the drop.

On the other hand though, if he has the courage of his convictions and doesn't try to play tight and we get and keep all our best players fit and they click, then maybe Sherwood will achieve that winning group mentality and we can start to climb the table. I actually think he is capable of creating a nice team, but if we don't start picking up the points then he might not have the chance.

[StefanAVFC]

I don't think we've been that bad this season overall, either.  There's just really basic things we should be doing better.  We don't look anywhere near "lost" a la that Hull match.

West Brom this seaosn was as bad as that IMO. And Southampton/Burnley/FA cup final were worse (although I acknowledge they were last season)

EDIT: Quote screwed up, replying to Bobzy.

Edited October 2, 2015 by StefanAVFC

[bobzy]

I don't think we've been that bad this season overall, either.  There's just really basic things we should be doing better.  We don't look anywhere near "lost" a la that Hull match.

West Brom this seaosn was as bad as that IMO. And Southampton/Burnley/FA cup final were worse (although I acknowledge they were last season)

EDIT: Quote screwed up, replying to Bobzy.

The West Brom game was horrible overall - not worse than Hull imo.  Strangely, outside of the West Brom game, I think our worst performance was probably against Bournemouth, but that's ended up being our only league win.  Go figure

[dukes]

Well i think what he did at the end of last season was remarkable given the players available to him. For that reason i will give him until mid December before i start calling for his head, and I am confident that i won't be calling for it then either.

 

Results have gone against us, the team are still gelling, and we've had injuries to the best two signings so far. We haven't had much luck, but flukey win and things suddenly look ok again, the margins are that tight.

 

Breathe everyone.

I think it's remarkable he managed to finish below John Carver's Newacastle.

very clever, but Newcastle were in tenth when Carver took over from Pardew in January, so as we were in the relegation zone when Sherwood took over in February it shouldn't be any kind of surprise they finished above us. But I don't suppose that common sense suits your agenda.

 

Please don't be so misguided as to think that only you or people that share your view have the monopoly on common sense. Oh and please stop accusing those who don't share your views of having an agenda.

In regards what I posted I was simply trying to illustrate in a quick way that Sherwood didn't do a remarkable job with us last season irrespective of us reaching Wembley. We had some very good results but we always had some very poor results.

He deserves credit and criticism for each but to claim what he did was remarkable is a bit of stretch in my opinion and I think probably the opinion of quite a few others.

I'm not against giving him more time but it doesn't mean I think that with more time he will turn this around. The faults I thought he had before he arrived here have only been confirmed in my view of him and I don't see that changing even if the results do.

I don't expect everyone to agree, that is football.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice on the common sense thing ? This is a forum for discussion, it would be a very dull place if we all agreed.

How many times have i accused people of having an agenda ? I think thats the only time, and maybe i shouldn't have, i'll be more careful in future.

When Sherwood took over we were well and truly in a hole and only going in one direction. I'm not saying there weren't other managers that could have done the same, there were, but at the end of the season we were safe and in a cup final.  For the first time in a while i had hope going into a summer.

The summer transfer window was one of the most entertaining we have had in a very long time (and thanks also for your insight on some of that). We started the season off playing half decent, and quick paced football, and even though we lost a few games there were generally enough positives to continue to have hope.

The Leicester game showed that Tim was naive, he lost us that game by being too gung ho, then against the baggies he seemed to recognise this and we were too defensive. The thing is, having signed so many players and then getting some injuries we are still gelling and finding our best team.

The overhaul of the squad was necessary, we lost Delph and Benteke, who would be missed by any team. Gana and Traore look to be very good and very exciting acquisitions and in Gestede and Ayew we have two unproven premier league strikers trying to find their feet, much the same as Benteke was after 7 or 8 games. That is why i think we should be more patient, at around the 15 game mark if we are still in the mire, then we will have to react, but right now we need to get behind the team and the manager.

On Tim's emotional post match interviews, i don't really know what to say, but it is quite good to see the manager hurting as much as i find myself hurting.

If we sack Sherwood, what's the next appointment likely to be ? Redknapp ? Pearson ? no thanks (and i am aware that other managers exist).

 

 

 

[useless]

If we're losing games we're losing games. Seems a bit pointless to take consolation from that it's maybe not as bad as when we lost to Hull, that game's got nothing to do with this season and what's happening now.

Edited October 2, 2015 by useless

[romavillan]

I don't think we've been that bad this season overall, either.  There's just really basic things we should be doing better.  We don't look anywhere near "lost" a la that Hull match.

West Brom this seaosn was as bad as that IMO. And Southampton/Burnley/FA cup final were worse (although I acknowledge they were last season)

EDIT: Quote screwed up, replying to Bobzy.

The West Brom game was horrible overall - not worse than Hull imo.  Strangely, outside of the West Brom game, I think our worst performance was probably against Bournemouth, but that's ended up being our only league win.  Go figure

Yeah west brom game was as bad as the Hull game IMO. They all looked like they had something better to do, or they'd all left the gas on or something.

[SikhInTrinity]

Interesting for those who claim Sherwood doesn't take responsibility. Said today:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-tim-sherwood-10182875

“I take the brunt of it. The buck stops with me. No excuses, you can’t blame anyone else. It’s a results business and we need results.

[TrentVilla]

Yes dukes it is which was my point, I don't expect everyone to share my point of view as I said in the last line of my post. I don't though accuse them of lacking common sense or having an agenda for it. 

[TrentVilla]

Interesting for those who claim Sherwood doesn't take responsibility. Said today:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-tim-sherwood-10182875

“I take the brunt of it. The buck stops with me. No excuses, you can’t blame anyone else. It’s a results business and we need results.

Perhaps a reflection of the growing sense he passes the buck in post match interviews, perhaps not.

Personally I've always felt he is far too open in his actions/comments during and after games. He is a little more measured pre game.

I'm sure some will prefer his more heart on sleeve approach to Lambert and I understand why but for me they are both extreme in their own way and I'd prefer a little more balance, a little more awareness and a little bit more thought from a manager.

I'll be delighted if Sherwood turns it around, I'd love to be wrong about him but right now I just don't think he will and I don't think I will. That isn't something I'm happy about.

[Zatman]

I don't think we've been that bad this season overall, either.  There's just really basic things we should be doing better.  We don't look anywhere near "lost" a la that Hull match.

West Brom this seaosn was as bad as that IMO. And Southampton/Burnley/FA cup final were worse (although I acknowledge they were last season)

EDIT: Quote screwed up, replying to Bobzy.

nothing will ever be worse than that Hull game, I have saw us lose 8-0, 7-1 get kicked out of cup by Bradford but that Hull game was the lowest of the low

Charles N'Zogbia getting a new 5 year deal would not make me feel as bad as that Hull game was