The Tim Sherwood Thread

[bose]

The cup final, the Southampton game and this game are some absolute record lows in just 5 months in charge. He'll get you performances like he did in the semi final but the lows are so much, much worse than how good the highs are.

2-0 up and losing 3-2 in 30 minutes is pathetic even by Villa's standards. I don't blame people at all for being reactionary, it's a complete **** up by the manager today. He then goes on to blame the players when he brings off a midfielder for an attacker who has shown in his games for us that he's nowhere near the form and standard needed to play in this league!?

[jon_c]

He's a good manager, he's positive, he's a good motivator, the players seem to like him, he can spot a player - he just has a problem with in game management. They all have flaws, we'll have to put up with this one and hope he works on it.

 

Game management is a pretty fundamental need for a football manager though. 

[Dodgyknees]

The cup final, the Southampton game and this game are some absolute record lows in just 5 months in charge. He'll get you performances like he did in the semi final but the lows are so much, much worse than how good the highs are.

2-0 up and losing 3-2 in 30 minutes is pathetic even by Villa's standards. I don't blame people at all for being reactionary, it's a complete **** up by the manager today. He then goes on to blame the players when he brings off a midfielder for an attacker who has shown in his games for us that he's nowhere near the form and standard needed to play in this league!?

Spot on. Blaming the players made it worse, yeah they played a part - and if he had turned around and admitted his side of the blame, I'd accept him pointing out that there were mistakes. He didn't though, and for somebody who claims to speak things as they are, he talks a lot of bollocks and covers up his own mistakes. 

[dudevillaisnice]

The worrying thing is he never seems to learn from his mistakes. If we lose either of our next two matches, I'd expect him to be sacked.

 

Are you serious?

The amount of dross Lambert served up for years and fans on here defended him, yet Sherwood loses a game and he should be sacked if we lose the next? Madness.

There would be 10x less of a melt down if we just lost 1-0.

I think the key here is a balance should be formed. Obviously we kept Lambert longer than we should've so that doesn't mean Sherwood deserves the same amount of time.

That said Sherwood does deserve SOME time to get things right but if progress isn't made I wouldn't keep him for the sake of it like we did under Lambert until it got truly bad.

[AndyM3000]

Record lows? I think you will find most of them are held by Lambert and will be for a very long time.

This is nowhere near as bad as it was before Sherwood. 

[Bunnski]

The worrying thing is he never seems to learn from his mistakes. If we lose either of our next two matches, I'd expect him to be sacked.

 

Are you serious?

The amount of dross Lambert served up for years and fans on here defended him, yet Sherwood loses a game and he should be sacked if we lose the next? Madness.

There would be 10x less of a melt down if we just lost 1-0.

 

It's not just one game though, this goes back to the end of the season and the 6-1 loss to Southampton. His decision making is not a short term thing.

And the Qpr home game and the Swansea home game and Stoke home game prior to that Southampton game and then the tactical masterpiece against Burnley.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Bunnski

[Zatman]

What a way to make an already shit time of the week even worse.

Never watching Villa on a Sunday afternoon again. 

I honestly can't remember the last time we didn't regularly lose on TV. I know we've been shit for years but it's always seemed like we're disproportionately worse on TV. The only difference is that normally we play really shit and lose 1 or 2 nil whereas today we were ok for most of the game but just completely collapsed and ended up losing from being 2-0 up, which in a way is a lot worse.

FA Cup semi final

[Dodgyknees]

The worrying thing is he never seems to learn from his mistakes. If we lose either of our next two matches, I'd expect him to be sacked.

 

Are you serious?

The amount of dross Lambert served up for years and fans on here defended him, yet Sherwood loses a game and he should be sacked if we lose the next? Madness.

There would be 10x less of a melt down if we just lost 1-0.

 

It's not just one game though, this goes back to the end of the season and the 6-1 loss to Southampton. His decision making is not a short term thing.

And the Qpr home game and the Swansea home game and Stoke home game prior to that Swansea game and then the tactical masterpiece against Burnley.

Yep

[markavfc40]

He's a good manager, he's positive, he's a good motivator, the players seem to like him, he can spot a player - he just has a problem with in game management. They all have flaws, we'll have to put up with this one and hope he works on it.

 

I think he is too positive at times when caution is required. In theory I love the argument of attack is the best form of defence but there really is a time and a place for that. Today at 2-0 up you know that the opposition are going to throw the kitchen sink at you so you shut up shop and see the game out. With 25 minutes to go and three subs up your sleeve and three defensive players on the bench he had the options to do just that but didn't.

Sherwood was right that individual errors cost us today but in the last 25 minutes the players needed some help and as manager it was his responsibility to make the changes be it in personnel and/or formation to hep us see the game out and he failed. Whether he learns from this I am not sure as he is very gung ho. For all our sakes lets hope he does.

Having said all of the above and given him a fair old kicking what I will add though is that first half he got it spot on and at times today we played some very good stuff. It is a massive shame though that his failure to make the necessary changes meant all the positives were rendered meaningless in terms of what we got from the game.

 

 

[bose]

 

He's a good manager, he's positive, he's a good motivator, the players seem to like him, he can spot a player - he just has a problem with in game management. They all have flaws, we'll have to put up with this one and hope he works on it.

 

I'm just angry from today's game and I don't want him sacked, doubt many want that anyway but there is not much evidence that he's a good manager - yet. He saved us from relegation last season - probably with his motivation skills, which I'm sure are very good. He took over from a manager that the players, fans and the whole club had lost confidence in and he was perfect for that role.

Having an in game management flaw is a pretty big one! This is a man who played in the Premier League for 15 years and even captained the champions one time. Yet he manages to look, at times, like a man that doesn't understand the simple things in the game and to be honest he looks very naive. He needs to learn fast or it's going to end very quickly for him and us.

Edited September 13, 2015 by bose

[TrentVilla]

I think it's fair to say he makes some bad decisions but I also think it's fair to say that the extent of them is being exaggerated somewhat.

It seems that whenever he makes a change in game that we subsequently don't win then it's attributed to his changes.

The first half was very promising but the second was poor and we showed a serious lack of experience and nous as we failed to hold onto the ball.

I could hear Sherwood bellowing at them to keep hold of it but they couldn't and for me the players have to shoulder quite a lot of the blame for that second half.

 

[danceoftheshamen]

Well 3 defeats against average teams at best from 5 played is not good. That win at Bournmouth seems a long way back now and i like many cannot fathom the subbing of Gil for Ayew. What on Earth was that about? 

I though Gabby had a few moments in the game most of which typically he f***ed up although he did set up Gil's goal and prevented them throwing the kitchen sink at us earlier. 

Ayew should maybe read Eh..Who? as i am yet to see something of relevance he brings to the team apart from a liability.

Guzan did what he does and just concedes lots of odd goals.

The defence i thought were frankly dodgy with Lescott culpable on several occasions by over playing in dangerous area's.

I thought Bacuna was less than average and kept giving the ball away,

Westwood was inconspicuous

Gil was one of our best players and kept us ticking over in midfield but had too much to do, wore himself out and the fatal error of replacing a diamond with a pebble (Gil for Ayew) was always going to be a disaster especially as it was clear they were gearing up to throw the kitchen sink. 

Grealish was a little weak & wasteful in possession too easily bullied off the ball in the most part aside from his well taken goal which should have been two! 

The game was crying out for Veretout to replace Gil surely? What on Earth the Ayew thing was about is bizarre in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

[Isa]

Oh dear. He is starting to frighten me with his in-game reactiveness.

[Dodgyknees]

Poor decisions today. We keep starting games well and teams have to adjust to us, which is a great sign. But then we don't seem to adjust to those changes. Bacuna is not good enough. Also time for Veretout to get a chance over Westwood.

 

Hang on, we are on top for most of the game, lose it because of the manager, and the first thing you worry about is dropping Westwood?

yes, i worry about decisions the manager makes in the managers thread. That ok?

I don't even **** care if we go down anymore - I really don't.

 

(For some reason I have loads of quotes on here which I haven't clicked on... weird...)

Trent: The fact we couldn't keep hold of the ball was because we were being overrun in the middle, instead of Ayew for Gil (when Ayew is off the pace), Veretout who can keep the ball - and is known for it - would have made more sense. Then Gestede for Gabby, and then play Grealish and Sinclair in behind Gestede, three in the middle with Veretout picking up the ball. 

Second to that, their wingers were all over Bacuna, so cover for him would have been ideal - perhaps with one of the wingers dropping in.

[lexicon]

If we could get Allardyce in tomorrow, I'd bin him off. 

[GeordieVillan]

Even if you are a staunch supporter of Sherwood there is no denying he shit the bed today. Really disappointing, just got to hope he learns from it.

You're right, I am a big fan of Tim, and I can't stick up for his subs today.

He hasn't been able to respond to opposition half time changes in the last 3 games (Palace, Sunderland, Leicester), and this has cost us points. He has said some of the right things in his post match interview - there were unforced individual errors, every player was guilty of them - but he hasn't recognised that we were thoroughly dominated in midfield for the entire second half.

I'm slightly concerned, as I thought he would learn from the Palace and Sunderland games, but it doesn't seem like he has. If we don't win the next 2 games, I think he's under big pressure, and I think the fans might start turn. I personally think he can still come good -

1) He has bought some very good players and assembled the best Villa team/squad since MON, and thats not including Veretout, Ayew and Gestede, who all may need need time to settle.

2) He has shown that he can set up us up very well tactically form the start of games, and he usually picks a starting 11 that most people would agree with. Even with people complaining about Gabby, he is the best option at the moment.

3) At times we are playing some of the best football we've played since MON. We look creative, we can retain the ball, and we seem to now have the ability to impose ourselves and dictate the game to the opposition. I would that in most games this season, we have been able to control the game at least 50% of the time, whereas previously it may have been only 25% of the time.

4) He seems to have assembled a very good back-room staff, although I'm not sure they are helping him during games.

On the flip-side -

a) So far, his substitutions and in-game changes are the worst of any Villa manager in my recollection. I don't believe this is an exaggeration - and the reason for this is that I think anyone watching the game can see what is needed and he is either not doing it, or doing something totally different. Today he was right to take off Gil, and he actually did it early enough for the change to be effective, but he should have been replaced with Clark or Veretout. Against Palace and Sunderland - the same thing - he didn't recognise that the opposition were massively in control of the game until it was too late.

b)he has so far not solved the problem that plagued Villa since Brian Little and John Gregory were manager. Many of our players go missing in games for long periods, and we allow the opposition to find their way back into games when it seems inconceivable.

Results like today do happen to all teams, even to the the best teams. However, today wasn't a case of us losing by the odd goal in 5, it was very much a collapse by a team that showed themselves to be significantly weaker than the opposition both mentally and physically. The Palace and Sunderland results were less concerning to me, as these were individual errors in games where we held our own.

Tim is going to need to start learning fast. He's lucky at the minute that other teams in the league have had even poorer starts, but I don't think that will last. I'm still behind him though.

 

[sharkyvilla]

I think it's fair to say he makes some bad decisions but I also think it's fair to say that the extent of them is being exaggerated somewhat.

It seems that whenever he makes a change in game that we subsequently don't win then it's attributed to his changes.

The first half was very promising but the second was poor and we showed a serious lack of experience and nous as we failed to hold onto the ball.

I could hear Sherwood bellowing at them to keep hold of it but they couldn't and for me the players have to shoulder quite a lot of the blame for that second half.

 

So why take off our best passer of a ball in Gil and replace him with a forward who has barely completed a pass since joining?  Then bring on Gestede who doesn't seem to be able to move as a target man, just hoof it up the pitch in his vague direction and invite pressure back on?  Even with a couple of dodgy performances I can't really blame any of the players for the defeat, it was a total lack of shape, sense, know how, anything really from Sherwood in the second half that cost us 3 points.

[Woodytom]

 

It seems that whenever he makes a change in game that we subsequently don't win then it's attributed to his changes.

probably because it's blindingly obvious that his changes are at fault.  There have been far more negative impacts as a result of his changes than there have been positive.

Its not inconceivable that a manager of an organisation genuinely doesn't have a clue. Ive worked under a number of them.

I believe our football team has one.

[Dodgyknees]

We had no shape after the subs, that was obvious (to me!).

Ayew was all over the place, trying to pick up the ball at left back, then he was in the middle, then we were left with gaps down the wings, then he appeared elsewhere and lost the ball (near their area). It was an odd sub, not the right time to bring him on at all.

[Guest av1]

To make 2 attacking substitutions when your getting overrun and 2 goals to the good is laughable.

 

With Ayew looking miles off and the QE2 looking more mobile than Gestede, I'm really quite worried about where the goals are coming from. We can't rely on the midfield, all in all its quite worrying.