The Tim Sherwood Thread

[KHV]

I watched Stoke vs Swansea on monday and saw a midfield pairing of Charlie Adam and Glenn Wheelan control the game. Leicester regularly play Morgan, Huth, Simpson, Schlupp, Drinkwater, Vardy. Palace play Dann, Hangeland, Delaney, Gayle, McArthur, Puncheon. I see players such as James Collins, Marc Albrighton, Ryan Betrand and Steven Davies, who were deemed not good enough for us, playing well and making a positive impact at their current clubs.

I remember the uproar when we were linked with Lennon, Townsend and Huddlestone

Those 3 would walk into our team

[Zatman]

Huddlestone for one takes a better corner than what we currently have

[Isa]

 

Those 3 would walk into our team

They really wouldn't.

[KHV]

 

Those 3 would walk into our team

 

They really wouldn't.

They really would, much better than what we currently have

Edited October 22, 2015 by KHV

[Isa]

No doubt you were one of those who said the same when Lescott was announced.

[mykeyb]

So what's the excuse for picking all the other players that were also awful but for game after game rather then one game?

I like Jack - he'll be a top talent - but what has he done so far that anyone else hasn't?  From the top of my head, I can remember one goal (Leicester, this season) and one assist (Liverpool, semi-final).  He's had some decent performances and some crap ones.  He's basically been in exactly the same boat as "other players".

I think he'll go on to be a lot better than most of what we currently have, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting a young lad in the early stages of his career.  Lambert (FWIW) managed it pretty perfectly.  Sherwood thrust him in immediately and bigged him up (fair play Timmy) and we get media coverage over the summer and a more drained, less sharp Grealish so far this season.

Playing every minute of every game isn't necessarily for the best when you're a 19 year old kid.

 

                  Andy Gray.....Brian little.....Gary Shaw......Gareth Barry.......Trevor Francis......Wayne Rooney

                   Alan shearer...........

                   If you are good enough, you are old enough.

 

                  

That statement refers to the quality of a player.

Jack is still developing. Yes he is young but he really shouldn't be playing every game at his age, not down to lack of ability, but to preserve him physically and most importantly mentally.

                     it was said.... it doesn't do you much good playing every game at 19......didn't do them much harm

Shaw and Little had their careers ended early by injury, so define harm!

[sharkyvilla]

I watched Stoke vs Swansea on monday and saw a midfield pairing of Charlie Adam and Glenn Wheelan control the game. Leicester regularly play Morgan, Huth, Simpson, Schlupp, Drinkwater, Vardy. Palace play Dann, Hangeland, Delaney, Gayle, McArthur, Puncheon. I see players such as James Collins, Marc Albrighton, Ryan Betrand and Steven Davies, who were deemed not good enough for us, playing well and making a positive impact at their current clubs.

I remember the uproar when we were linked with Lennon, Townsend and Huddlestone

I doubt any of those players listed would be on the wages of those three, and certainly not in the same league in terms of transfer fee for Townsend, who would have cost north of £10m.  Lennon would have been ok value but I suspect he'd have chosen Everton over us anyway.  Either way we are seriously underachieving considering the players we have.

[Zatman]

Charlie Adam I imagine is on a huge salary and Albrighton, Davis and Collins be on probably more than some of our players at the moment

[StanBalaban]

Grealish is 20, hardly a kid and I'd expect him to start 30+ games this season for us, I don't consider that too big an ask for him mentally or physically or that it would be 'burning him out'.

 

Indeed, the whole 'cotton wool' attitude towards young players is really quite ridiculous. Same sort of thinking that continues to treat players as 'kids' and 'youngsters' even once they are 23/24. Last season it was Grealish shouldn't be thrusted in because the team were struggling and it might 'ruin him' - whatever that was supposed to mean. This season he shouldn't play regularly because he'll burn out. Obviously he isn't going to be the finished article at this stage and inconsistancy comes with that. That's what development is all about and the more games he gets under his belt, the better he'll be for it.

gary gardner this week...

think its easy to confuse players that are struggling to break through with youngsters, chris herd would be another

reality is though 20 is still young, there arent many 20 year olds playing 30+ games a season in the prem

Yep. To put it into context, Anthony Martial is 19 and has just moved to this league and is starting for one of the biggest clubs in the world.

[markavfc40]

Gestede up top with Gil and Grealish carrying the ball into the middle of the pitch is just wrong.  But that was most of the second half (v Stoke, I think).  The tactics, formation, and player selection and/or the player instructions are coming from three different "pages."  I'm oversimplifying, but if you want to beat an opponent with speed, you need Gabby and Sinclair in the game, and you need to instruct them to run the channels.  And you need to tell Gil and Grealish to play the ball over the top into that space.  The player strength, the role they are asked to play and the formation all need to be in concert.  They are not.  we're playing over the top to Gestede, or making crosses to Gabby. (oversimplifying for clarity, not precision) The point is, we never seem to end up on one coherent page.

I think you make a very good point here. At times Sherwood I think is trying to be too clever and by doing so is not getting the best out of what he has available to him.

I know many on here loathe O'Neill and whilst I think he can be criticized for paying too much for the squad he assembled he did in the main get the best out of the players he had and to do so he kept things pretty simple. We played with a big man up top, usually Carew, got Ash and Gabby either side of him and nine times out of ten our attack consisted of breaking quickly and getting it into the channels for Ash or Gabby to get on to and cross into the box or getting it up to the big man and playing off him. We have the players do do that now. Gestede thrives on balls into the box, two of Gabby, Sinclair, Traore, Ayew can be the pace merchants either side of him. Where we may struggle is in midfield as we don't have Stan, Barry and Milner but we have Westwood or Sanchez who can sit and be a poor mans Stan, Gana a poor mans Milner and Grealish or Gil are capable of offering the cultured quick to the wide lads passing that Barry did.

What is certain is that if we are going to play with Gestede, and at present he looks like the only forward that if fed can put the ball in the back of the net, then we need to play to his strengths. He is not a mobile forward, he won't make clever runs in behind the centre backs for Gil or Grealish to thread passes into. I am not sure we have that forward to get the best out of both Grealish and Gil and you can frequently see them getting frustrated by the lack of movement in front of them. I know some throw the toys out of the pram when one or both aren't picked but whilst they may be good players if we don't have the players around them that means they can shine it is pointless picking them both.

As stated above we need to play things a little more simple and agricultural. Get the ball and get it wide and into the box, or get it up to the big man quickly and play off him. This fannying about with a slow build may look pretty but as soon as we get to the final third we look clueless. We need to start playing football that gets the best out of the squad we have that may not be very attractive but will be effective.

[foreveryoung]

I watched Stoke vs Swansea on monday and saw a midfield pairing of Charlie Adam and Glenn Wheelan control the game. Leicester regularly play Morgan, Huth, Simpson, Schlupp, Drinkwater, Vardy. Palace play Dann, Hangeland, Delaney, Gayle, McArthur, Puncheon. I see players such as James Collins, Marc Albrighton, Ryan Betrand and Steven Davies, who were deemed not good enough for us, playing well and making a positive impact at their current clubs

I cannot believe there are fans saying most of these players would walk straight into our team.  Most of them are bang average and are just being managed an coached much much better than our bunch. I mean I wouldn't have thought Drinkwater, Schlupp, even Simpson would get anywhere near our team, but Raneri gets some quality out of them. Its about how you manage and coach the players, im sure Raneri would'nt turn his nose up at the likes of Gil, Grealish, Traore, maybe Sinclair.  I bet he even could make Westwood into a different player.

To put it into different perspective, I very much doubt Sherwood would have made use of the players as good as Raneri has, an made Leicester into the team they are today.

[dn1982]

On the back of the who signed who leaks is Sherwood playing with our future by not picking players he didn't want? Amavi was dropped for Richardson Veretout bombed completely Gana played because he's the only one if his type at the club. Ayew has rarely been seen and even less so in the position he was bought for. Where as Gestede plays regardless of the fact we don't play with width to suit him. We know he can be petty with his handling of Gil last season and to a degree this one. Then again he might just be an awful manager! I guessing both! 

[AshVilla]

The silence coming from the club is deafening at the minute

Hopefully this Saturday is the last i'll ever see Sherwood as Villa manager

onwards and upwards

Edited October 22, 2015 by AshVilla

[Woodytom]

I don't want tim sherwood at this club a minute longer but I don't think it's too far fetched to believe our players simply aren't good enough.

Yes sometimes it does take time for players to adapt, but that ALWAYS seems to be the case with us. Perhaps theyre simply not good enough. 

I think we're one of the most deluded set of fans when it comes to rating our players, especially over the last 5 years when they been pretty much woeful for the whole period.

Yes weve had some questionable managers, and Tim sherwood is certainly one of them, but, my word, it's about time these players stood up, be counted for and regardless of a lack of leadership, do what they are paid to do. 

Instead of bullshitting us with 'its about to click' bollocks: show us ffs. I wonder in a few weeks (when we're still shit), the likes of micah richards and Alan Hutton will come out and actually say - well we're still not clicking so perhaps it's about time we took a hard long look in the mirror. Doubt it tho.

Bad day at work rant over.

[VillanousOne]

It is weird that not once have we had two wide players running the flanks and putting in crosses to Gestede, no-one seems to play in front of the midfield in order to make runs/play through balls to, Gil and Grealish sometimes have a few exchanges, Gabby seemed to do that initially although to no great affect.

Gana, Vertout, Westwood and Sanchez never seem to get far forward enough.

It feels like Sherwood tries some players and tactics, one thing fails he presses reset and never seems to retain any player in a position or tactic that has shown any promise.

Ayew played really well down the right flank against the scum, never played there since.

We don't seem to learn from anything good or bad that happens on the pitch.

Against Swansea another 3 or 4 changes will be made, now ok many would argue we need that but he can't change the team and tactics every week.

[AshVilla]

I don't want tim sherwood at this club a minute longer but I don't think it's too far fetched to believe our players simply aren't good enough.

Yes sometimes it does take time for players to adapt, but that ALWAYS seems to be the case with us. Perhaps theyre simply not good enough. 

I think we're one of the most deluded set of fans when it comes to rating our players, especially over the last 5 years when they been pretty much woeful for the whole period.

Yes weve had some questionable managers, and Tim sherwood is certainly one of them, but, my word, it's about time these players stood up, be counted for and regardless of a lack of leadership, do what they are paid to do. 

Instead of bullshitting us with 'its about to click' bollocks: show us ffs. I wonder in a few weeks (when we're still shit), the likes of micah richards and Alan Hutton will come out and actually say - well we're still not clicking so perhaps it's about time we took a hard long look in the mirror. Doubt it tho.

Bad day at work rant over.

The reason our players are not adapting is because the system and side is changed every week

They cannot establish any rhythm momentum or consistency because of it and that's down to the manager

I'm 100% confident that any manager that comes in and sticks to a way of playing and doesn't change it every week will get more out of these players than we currently have been doing simply because sometimes the best way of operating is the simple way why over complicate things

 

Edited October 22, 2015 by AshVilla

[Zatman]

The silence coming from the club is deafening at the minute

Hopefully this Saturday is the last i'll ever see Sherwood as Villa manager

onwards and upwards

the same silence since he was appointed in February? or the silence when Lambert, McLeish, Houllier and MON was in charge?

[HeyAnty]

Long but worth a read.  From the guardian tonight

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/22/aston-villa-tim-sherwood-future?
 

[tinker]

Benteke nor Delph would have made no difference, they have both been injured and would have offered less than the players we have , up to now. 

Awful Tactics have cost us at least 3 points , no more excuses , pick a team and back the players by sticking with them for more than half a game, whether we are winning or losing

Edited October 22, 2015 by tinker

[Zatman]

Benteke would have made a difference, he got injured September 20th and he would have got helped get us more points in Sunderland, Palace, West Brom games and especially Leicester with his hold up play