The 2015 General Election

[bickster]

Both Labour and Conservatives support TTIP which is a backdoor to privatisation, UKIP have actually come out and talked about privatising - the Greens are the only party that have committed to it, committed to pulling out of TTIP and want to bring us back to an NHS which is nearer to the way it was envisioned. On the NHS I'm all Green.

 

Labour still have a chance to re-policy and move to the place where the voters want somebody - the vote will move quickly for them if they do - our best hope for a decent Government might be in how quickly they can move.

Not sure that is true. There was a Private members bill last November which proposed exempting the NHS from TTIP. The Labour party fully backed this, declaring that the NHS should be removed from the proposed deal. Haven't seen anything to indicate that stance has changed. Nor would I expect it to.

Labour still pro TTIP though. That in itself is a huge reason not to vote for them in my book.

[meregreen]

 

 

Both Labour and Conservatives support TTIP which is a backdoor to privatisation, UKIP have actually come out and talked about privatising - the Greens are the only party that have committed to it, committed to pulling out of TTIP and want to bring us back to an NHS which is nearer to the way it was envisioned. On the NHS I'm all Green.

 

Labour still have a chance to re-policy and move to the place where the voters want somebody - the vote will move quickly for them if they do - our best hope for a decent Government might be in how quickly they can move.

Not sure that is true. There was a Private members bill last November which proposed exempting the NHS from TTIP. The Labour party fully backed this, declaring that the NHS should be removed from the proposed deal. Haven't seen anything to indicate that stance has changed. Nor would I expect it to.

 

Labour still pro TTIP though. That in itself is a huge reason not to vote for them in my book.

 

Given that every quote from Labour I have seen indicates Labour are opposed to TTIP. What have you seen that would indicate otherwise.

[bickster]

Both Labour and Conservatives support TTIP which is a backdoor to privatisation, UKIP have actually come out and talked about privatising - the Greens are the only party that have committed to it, committed to pulling out of TTIP and want to bring us back to an NHS which is nearer to the way it was envisioned. On the NHS I'm all Green.

 

Labour still have a chance to re-policy and move to the place where the voters want somebody - the vote will move quickly for them if they do - our best hope for a decent Government might be in how quickly they can move.

Not sure that is true. There was a Private members bill last November which proposed exempting the NHS from TTIP. The Labour party fully backed this, declaring that the NHS should be removed from the proposed deal. Haven't seen anything to indicate that stance has changed. Nor would I expect it to.

Labour still pro TTIP though. That in itself is a huge reason not to vote for them in my book.

Given that every quote from Labour I have seen indicates Labour are opposed to TTIP. What have you seen that would indicate otherwise.

From May 2014, 38 degrees asked all the parties where they stood on a variety of issues. This was Labour's response to the question...

1) How will MEPs from your party go about stopping the NHS, our welfare and the environment from being threatened by global trade agreements like the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)?

Labour: Labour supports TTIP, which has the potential to bring significant benefits to British consumers, workers and businesses, with a projected increase in UK national income of up to £100 billion over a decade. We will continue to monitor its progress, in particular with regard to the impact TTIP may have on vital national policies and services, such as the NHS. This is a red line for Labour MEPs, and we will not support TTIP if the NHS is not protected.

We must remain vigilant to ensure the government does not use international trade agreements as a tool to undermine our public services, including the NHS, or expose them to the full force of EU competition law. We must ensure patients are always put first. Labour MEPs have also voted for environmental, health and employment legislation to be safeguarded from corporate legal challenges and will continue to argue against investor-state dispute settlement in TTIP.

The only party out of the five (Con, Lab, Lib, Ukip, Green) that is against the TTIP is the Green Party. That article doesn't ask UKIP but despite what they say in public, the only time a UKIP MEP voted on the TTIP in the European Parliament, Roger Helmer voted for it and actions with UKIP definitely speak louder than words.

Link

[Demitri_C]

I'm fairly anti Labour myself these days but thats because I'm anti any neo-liberal party which they became under Bliar and even though they've tip toed to the left they still are essentially New Labour and I wouldn't trust most of them not to sell their own Granny. I however wouldn't turn my dislike of them into voting for the Tories who I view as even worse

 

 

Cant really say they are worse when the economy is much better than what it was under labour and unemployments low.

 

Two things for me the tories are completing ruining

 

NHS

Questionable cuts

 

If they can fix these two then I think they would do vert well at  the election

[MakemineVanilla]

Would the reinstatement of Clause IV make Labour more appealing?

 

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

[Mantis]

 

can we have a poll mods ?  be interesting to see how many kippers and Greens we have  ...

 

This.

 

I'd like to see how VT votes.

 

Think we all know the answer to that.

 

Just as a guesstimate, I think a VT poll would look something like this:

 

50% Labour

20% Green

10% Conservative

10% Lib Dem

5% UKIP

5% Other

 

Would the reinstatement of Clause IV make Labour more appealing?

 

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

Probably to their core base but not to the wider electorate.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Mantis

[KHV]

 

I'm fairly anti Labour myself these days but thats because I'm anti any neo-liberal party which they became under Bliar and even though they've tip toed to the left they still are essentially New Labour and I wouldn't trust most of them not to sell their own Granny. I however wouldn't turn my dislike of them into voting for the Tories who I view as even worse

 

 

Cant really say they are worse when the economy is much better than what it was under labour and unemployments low.

 

Two things for me the tories are completing ruining

 

NHS

Questionable cuts

 

If they can fix these two then I think they would do vert well at  the election

 

Well the NHS is always a problem for whoever is in power, I'm not a fan of the NHS if im honest

[bickster]

Would the reinstatement of Clause IV make Labour more appealing?

 

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

No not really, I'm only in favour of the nationalisation of national infrastructure assets assets e.g. public transport and the utility co's. I'm perfectly happy for business to run everything else as long as they pay their taxes and employ people on living wages.

[lapal_fan]

I'm surprised by the amount of green voters here - not that thats a bad thing - all of those sites which give you the political spectrum show I'm more greens than anyone. But is there a reason they're not MORE popular? They never really seem to get many MP's in parliament etc.

[villarule123]

I got Labour by quite a margin in one of the online quizzes, I've never voted though as I think they're all a bunch of tossers in one way or another.

 

I may vote this time though.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I'm surprised by the amount of green voters here - not that thats a bad thing - all of those sites which give you the political spectrum show I'm more greens than anyone. But is there a reason they're not MORE popular? They never really seem to get many MP's in parliament etc.

 

First Past the Post.

Edited January 28, 2015 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[lapal_fan]

I'm surprised by the amount of green voters here - not that thats a bad thing - all of those sites which give you the political spectrum show I'm more greens than anyone. But is there a reason they're not MORE popular? They never really seem to get many MP's in parliament etc.

First Past the Post.

Yea but why don't more people vote for them?

I hear and know quite lot of people who like greens but would not vote fornl them, i guess its because they feel it would be a wasted vote and just stick to the normal two?

[Condimentalist]

 

 

I'm surprised by the amount of green voters here - not that thats a bad thing - all of those sites which give you the political spectrum show I'm more greens than anyone. But is there a reason they're not MORE popular? They never really seem to get many MP's in parliament etc.

First Past the Post.

Yea but why don't more people vote for them?

I hear and know quite lot of people who like greens but would not vote fornl them, i guess its because they feel it would be a wasted vote and just stick to the normal two?

 

 

Yep. I never understand that argument. The only wasted vote is for for a party you don't believe in. 

 

People are talking about this election is a different way though - the death of two party politics - although I think it remains to be seen whether such a change would last even if it manifests this tine around. 

[mjmooney]

I'm surprised by the amount of green voters here - not that thats a bad thing - all of those sites which give you the political spectrum show I'm more greens than anyone. But is there a reason they're not MORE popular? They never really seem to get many MP's in parliament etc.

First Past the Post.

Yea but why don't more people vote for them?

I hear and know quite lot of people who like greens but would not vote fornl them, i guess its because they feel it would be a wasted vote and just stick to the normal two?

Exactly that. In my constituency, Labour has a real chance to take the seat, Greens don't. So regardless of the fact that the Greens' policies are now closer to my beliefs than Labour's, my main priority is to get the Tories out. So I have to vote Labour, even if it is rather more reluctantly than it would have been in the past.

[blandy]

So why, if the electorate say that it is their main priority, isn't there a party willing to use that mandate to raise taxes to pay for something we are told the electorate demand?

 

Can't the electorate see that the main driving force for the privatisation of the NHS is their unwillingness to fund it properly?

The money spent is bound to have an impact, you're dead right.

There are frequenty claims about how the NHS is the best...etc. in the world. It just isn't.

 

But anyway, I think you've made a logical jump which perhaps you didn't intentionally mean

You say The electorate has it as high priority and parties aren't willing, but then claim it's the electorate that's unwilling...

 

Now maybe that is true, maybe it isn't - I suspect it isn't true. But we don't know because it's actually the parties that are being timid in saying it needs bringing up to the funding levels of France, say, to provide the level of care and excellence we all want, and that this means...tax rises (or howver they'd get the money)

 

I suspect a heck of a lot of votes would be won. But we don't know, because the parties won't dare mention tax (other than the tories ludicrous tax cut thing, they've lied about)

[lapal_fan]

I'm surprised by the amount of green voters here - not that thats a bad thing - all of those sites which give you the political spectrum show I'm more greens than anyone. But is there a reason they're not MORE popular? They never really seem to get many MP's in parliament etc.

First Past the Post.

Yea but why don't more people vote for them?

I hear and know quite lot of people who like greens but would not vote fornl them, i guess its because they feel it would be a wasted vote and just stick to the normal two?

Exactly that. In my constituency, Labour has a real chance to take the seat, Greens don't. So regardless of the fact that the Greens' policies are now closer to my beliefs than Labour's, my main priority is to get the Tories out. So I have to vote Labour, even if it is rather more reluctantly than it would have been in the past.

It's strange, isn't it?

I mean, I'm in the position where I really don't mind who wins to be honest, although I think I'd rather have Cameron in charge than milliband - i honestly think it's a case of who's the lesser idiot.

so i think I'll go ahead and vote Greens this election, as we all know, it's a slightly wasted vote in the fact that it's not going to change the outcome, bit at least they know someone will vote them against the run of play [emoji56]

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

It's the voting system we have. It's designed to favour two established parties.

 

It makes no sense. For example, last time out the turnout was 65%, Tories got 36.1% of that turnout (around 10.7m people), yet the majority who voted choose 'left of centre' parties (8.6m Lab, 6.8m LibDem) i.e the majority voted against Tory policies, yet we've had 5 years of them.

 

How that isn't a major talking point is beyond me.

[coda]

 

 

can we have a poll mods ?  be interesting to see how many kippers and Greens we have  ...

 

This.

 

I'd like to see how VT votes.

 

Think we all know the answer to that.

 

Just as a guesstimate, I think a VT poll would look something like this:

 

50% Labour

20% Green

10% Conservative

10% Lib Dem

5% UKIP

5% Other

 

I vaguely remember a previous poll and VT wasn't as "left"-wing as you might imagine. I think those more to the right are less vocal on here.

[Xann]

There are frequenty claims about how the NHS is the best...etc. in the world. It just isn't.

 

It's a **** site better than the poxy American model.

 

 

An American doctor experiences an NHS emergency room... It makes you wonder exactly what frightens Americans about the NHS?

 

Clicky

[Mantis]

It's the voting system we have. It's designed to favour two established parties.

 

It makes no sense. For example, last time out the turnout was 65%, Tories got 36.1% of that turnout (around 10.7m people), yet the majority who voted choose 'left of centre' parties (8.6m Lab, 6.8m LibDem) i.e the majority voted against Tory policies, yet we've had 5 years of them.

 

How that isn't a major talking point is beyond me.

You make out as if we've had a Conservative majority government.

 

 

There are frequenty claims about how the NHS is the best...etc. in the world. It just isn't.

 

It's a **** site better than the poxy American model.

 

 

An American doctor experiences an NHS emergency room... It makes you wonder exactly what frightens Americans about the NHS?

 

Clicky

 

I may have missed another one of his posts, but did blandy ever mention that he thought the American healthcare system is better?

 

I find it weird how often whenever any criticism of the NHS is made the American system is brought up. It's not like there are only two ways.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Mantis