The 2015 General Election

[Mantis]

Again, Labour and the Lib Dems only look centre-right if you're looking at them from the far-left. You could definitely make an argument for them being in the centre but centre-right? No way.

[bickster]

Again, Labour and the Lib Dems only look centre-right if you're looking at them from the far-left. You could definitely make an argument for them being in the centre but centre-right? No way.

Way.

Seriously at the 2010 election, all three parties were in favour of "austerity measures". That in itself marks them all out as to the right of centre. That is the right wing economic thinking in a nutshell. Not that much has changed and it isn't about where you look at them from

[Mantis]

There's a lot more to left and right than positions on austerity.

[Chindie]

Labour have effectively been Centre Right since they went 'Third Way'. The very nature of the Third Way was effectively to become more economically right wing whilst trying to preserve some token left wing policies.

They murmur about shifting left again, but they've not really done it. I think the only way you can legitimately view Labour as on the left these days is either if you're stood considerably right of centre, or wear a tie dyed so red you can't see straight anymore.

Left wing parties are basically dead add mainstream endeavours in the UK. They exist only as regional focused parties, which always will have limited viability nationally, niche interest parties (Greens, in essence, even with their apparent growth I'm yet to be convinced they are gaining anything other than protests and the disenfranchised) and the token radical left. None of them have any chance of running the UK, except as part of a rainbow coalition.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Chindie

[bickster]

There's a lot more to left and right than positions on austerity.

In the current economic climate is there? Its still the economics of Keynes vs the economics of Friedman. Keynes (none of them) is left, Friedman (all of them) is right. Intervention and regulation vs leaving it to the market. They only intervened in the banks because they had to, the rest is leaving it to the market...

All three are right wing

[Mantis]

That's a bit of a black and white way of looking at it - none of them are completely free market.

 

Politics changes and so do concepts of left and right. There are quite a few things which seemed radically left 100 years ago for example that are classed as centrist today. Have the major left-wing parties changed? Yes, there's no denying that, but so too have perceptions on what is considered left or right. If the current economic system is still in a similar form 100 years from now will it still be "right-wing" to be largely supportive of that?

[bickster]

That's a bit of a black and white way of looking at it - none of them are completely free market.

No one said they were, they are however still all right of centre economically

[Mantis]

It really does depend on where you sit on the political spectrum.

[bickster]

It really does depend on where you sit on the political spectrum.

No it really doesn't

[Mantis]

 

It really does depend on where you sit on the political spectrum.

No it really doesn't

 

It actually does to a certain extent - you only have to look at some of the wildly different interpretations of where the parties are in this thread. As I said, left and right change, mainly because parties on both sides found the need to change in order to pick up votes and get into power.

[peterms]

There's a lot more to left and right than positions on austerity.

Long term, big picture, yes.

Short term, this election, this country, this narrow perspective, no.

[Mantis]

 

There's a lot more to left and right than positions on austerity.

Long term, big picture, yes.

Short term, this election, this country, this narrow perspective, no.

 

Why's that?

[bickster]

It really does depend on where you sit on the political spectrum.

No it really doesn't

It actually does to a certain extent - you only have to look at some of the wildly different interpretations of where the parties are in this thread. As I said, left and right change, mainly because parties on both sides found the need to change in order to pick up votes and get into power.

Thats the difference between perception and proper analysis. Where people perceive parties to be and where they actually are, can very often be different.

You for example think Labour are centre-left when really they are centre-right. In power they were centre right, they haven't changed. Brown as Chancellor was the one that freed up the banks to do what the hell they like, classic right wing economics. The solution was austerity, classic right wing economics but the rhetoric was often spun so people thought they were a leftist party, the reality was quite the opposite.

[chrisp65]

Can anyone think of any genuinely leftist or, lord forbid, 'socialist' policies of the last newlabour government?

They were more for tinkering and assuring the markets they were harmless, weren't they?

[Mantis]

 

 

 

It really does depend on where you sit on the political spectrum.

No it really doesn't

 

It actually does to a certain extent - you only have to look at some of the wildly different interpretations of where the parties are in this thread. As I said, left and right change, mainly because parties on both sides found the need to change in order to pick up votes and get into power.

 

Thats the difference between perception and proper analysis. Where people perceive parties to be and where they actually are, can very often be different.

You for example think Labour are centre-left when really they are centre-right. In power they were centre right, they haven't changed. Brown as Chancellor was the one that freed up the banks to do what the hell they like, classic right wing economics. The solution was austerity, classic right wing economics but the rhetoric was often spun so people thought they were a leftist party, the reality was quite the opposite.

Actually, I don't think the Blair government were at all left-wing economically. Economically I'd say they probably were centre-right but I think that's changed with Miliband. There's also more to the parties than just economic policy, but I think some people need to consider that perhaps the nature of left and right have changed over the past few decades.

[bickster]

Left and right is generally about economics. That is all its about.

Social policy is judged on a different scale which runs from Libertarian to Authoritarian. Labour were and are more authoritarian than the Tories.

[Mantis]

I honestly don't know where you got the idea from that left and right is only about economics.

[chrisp65]

I honestly don't know where you got the idea from that left and right is only about economics.

 

it's also about crossing the road

[bickster]

I honestly don't know where you got the idea from that left and right is only about economics.

I honestly don't now where you get the idea that its about something else

[villaajax]

Just watched that interview with Natalie Bennett on Sunday Politics... Wow.