The ISIS threat to Europe

[Awol]

3 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Terrorist attack = deliberate disinformation / information warfare.

Up is down, front is back, black is white. Cast doubt, deflect, build straw men and try to cause confusion.  It's a reasonably well paid profession.

 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, The_Rev said:

 

It's not always a good idea to get hung up on individual words or phrases when analyzing what a French guy said.  Stuff gets lost in translation. 

You're thinking of Houllier again aren't you.... :)

[TrentVilla]

18 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Plus by throwing their passports on the ground there's more chance of them being ID'd, so when the press eventually announce their names they have become a martyr. 

 

I was going to post something similar. These people want the world to know who was behind these things, they want to be identified, it helps having the kudos with all those virgins.

Although I accept the one for 911 was more than a little suspect.

[VILLAMARV]

All go in Brussels atm. Seems they may have tracked one of the guys down they are looking for.

[TrentVilla]

I've mentioned a few times in this thread already the credit our security services deserve when a comparison is made to events in France over the last couple of years.

I sound like a broken record on it I know but I think its really something people should be aware of and recognise especially as more emerges about the attacks in Paris.

Last night I posted in here how the French were warned following the arrest 10 days ago of a guy in a car full of weapons seemingly heading to Paris.

It is now starting to be reported that the Turkish warned the French that the Bataclan was a target almost 12 months ago. 

Meanwhile Cameron has today confirmed our security services have foiled 7 attacks on the UK in 12 months. Which is impressive and scary in equal measure. It is also significant because as recently as September the head of MI5 said it was 6 attacks.

It would seem to me the French need to improve their security and we should be grateful to the shadowy figures that help sure our own even if it comes at some costs.

I'm sure to some that will signal me welcoming the death of personal privacy and be Theresa May's henchman but so be it.

[mykeyb]

The first thing that needs to be done is to sort out the problems in Syria so that the people there arent all looking to leave what essentially is a war zone and if that means feet on the ground then maybe the UN will grow a pair.

Sadly you can have 100,000 refugees who come to europe and out of the 100,000 one can be an IS member who will be involved in something like what happened in Paris and all of a sudden border controls etc become major issues, whether IS are intelligent enough to work out that by doing this the very people trying to get away from them suddenly become public enemy no 1 is debatable.

[Stevo985]

41 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Plus by throwing their passports on the ground there's more chance of them being ID'd, so when the press eventually announce their names they have become a martyr. 

I was going to say the same thing.

These are guys who want to be martyrs, and ISIS want to claim responsibility for the attacks.

If anything, they WANT to be identified. They're not trying to get away with the crime are they?

[sharkyvilla]

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I've mentioned a few times in this thread already the credit our security services deserve when a comparison is made to events in France over the last couple of years.

I sound like a broken record on it I know but I think its really something people should be aware of and recognise especially as more emerges about the attacks in Paris.

Last night I posted in here how the French were warned following the arrest 10 days ago of a guy in a car full of weapons seemingly heading to Paris.

It is now starting to be reported that the Turkish warned the French that the Bataclan was a target almost 12 months ago. 

Meanwhile Cameron has today confirmed our security services have foiled 7 attacks on the UK in 12 months. Which is impressive and scary in equal measure. It is also significant because as recently as September the head of MI5 said it was 6 attacks.

It would seem to me the French need to improve their security and we should be grateful to the shadowy figures that help sure our own even if it comes at some costs.

I'm sure to some that will signal me welcoming the death of personal privacy and be Theresa May's henchman but so be it.

I think we are fortunate to have the channel between us and mainland Europe.  I think it must be a lot harder for a place like France, especially as this seems to have been thought up in Belgium and there is nothing to stop them coming over the border and carrying out the attack in Paris.  It is very difficult and there must be a mixture of luck and excellent security work, and even then you can still fail to stop these attacks.

[choffer]

8 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I've mentioned a few times in this thread already the credit our security services deserve when a comparison is made to events in France over the last couple of years.

I sound like a broken record on it I know but I think its really something people should be aware of and recognise especially as more emerges about the attacks in Paris.

Last night I posted in here how the French were warned following the arrest 10 days ago of a guy in a car full of weapons seemingly heading to Paris.

It is now starting to be reported that the Turkish warned the French that the Bataclan was a target almost 12 months ago. 

Meanwhile Cameron has today confirmed our security services have foiled 7 attacks on the UK in 12 months. Which is impressive and scary in equal measure. It is also significant because as recently as September the head of MI5 said it was 6 attacks.

It would seem to me the French need to improve their security and we should be grateful to the shadowy figures that help sure our own even if it comes at some costs.

I'm sure to some that will signal me welcoming the death of personal privacy and be Theresa May's henchman but so be it.

I have it fairly good authority (which I won't post for obvious reasons) that the number is significantly higher than that. I think the feeling is that the real number would create more panic.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

It's been done earlier in the thread, that in France the police can stop and ask anyone for ID so it's better for anyone preparing a terrorist attack to carry it with them to avoid suspicion on the off chance they get stopped.  Hence why they have passports on them.

It's also sometimes to let the suicide bomber's own family know what happened, grimly enough. 

[KHV]

1 minute ago, choffer said:

I have it fairly good authority (which I won't post for obvious reasons) that the number is significantly higher than that. I think the feeling is that the real number would create more panic.

As long as they keep foiling them the number is irrelevant

Edited November 16, 2015 by KHV

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, LxYoungAVFC said:

I see your point. Same where I live, so I thought about this too.

But it's not like a terrorist would think: "Oh I better make sure my passeport is safe from the explosion so they can identify me later."

I think normally it would be disintegrated.

But hey, "conspiracy nut" here.

 

As noted above, this is often quite specifically what they do think. Remember that a] they think they're doing an awesome thing and that everyone they give a shit about will applaud them for it, and b] that they have both families of their own, and quite possibly bosses who want to know they did the job. 

[choffer]

Just now, KHV said:

As long as they keep foiling them!

The trouble is, it's like the IRA used to say. It's all well and good the authorities being lucky 99 times out of 100. They only need to get lucky once.

[KHV]

Just now, choffer said:

The trouble is, it's like the IRA used to say. It's all well and good the authorities being lucky 99 times out of 100. They only need to get lucky once.

To a point yes, but I'd rather they got lucky once rather than 10 or 15 times. Their luck will inevitably run out at some point, it's a case of when not if we get another terror attack in the UK

[Chindie]

55 minutes ago, Awol said:

Uh huh. So a CIA black op', or Mossad? 

Muslims are magnitudes more likely to believe in conspiracies, I seem to recall reading it's been discovered, so you're probably not far off...

[Wainy316]

The conspiracy theories are more believable than the existence of a man that lives in the sky and says you can't drink alcohol.

[TrentVilla]

11 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I think we are fortunate to have the channel between us and mainland Europe.  I think it must be a lot harder for a place like France, especially as this seems to have been thought up in Belgium and there is nothing to stop them coming over the border and carrying out the attack in Paris.  It is very difficult and there must be a mixture of luck and excellent security work, and even then you can still fail to stop these attacks.

I think its far too easy to blame geography. Yes there is little to stop people crossing a border but there is also little to stop people crossing the sea in boats, I mean people swim it its that close.

I think its far more down to the security services than luck.

[TrentVilla]

10 minutes ago, choffer said:

I have it fairly good authority (which I won't post for obvious reasons) that the number is significantly higher than that. I think the feeling is that the real number would create more panic.

Likewise.

[Chindie]

6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Likewise.

I don't doubt this but it would be interesting to see what they defined as 'foiling an attack'.

The term conjures up images of guys getting raiding as they're soldering the wires to the c4, whereas I'd suspect that the more accurate take would be that they've picked up a load of guys who popped up on a list as having looked at dodgy material the intelligence services have flagged.

It doesn't remove the great standard of work GCHQ and co are doing but probably ranks down the threat mentally when it's actually more often than not picking up guys that present a risk rather than an imminent threat.

[choffer]

6 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I don't doubt this but it would be interesting to see what they defined as 'foiling an attack'.

The term conjures up images of guys getting raiding as they're soldering the wires to the c4, whereas I'd suspect that the more accurate take would be that they've picked up a load of guys who popped up on a list as having looked at dodgy material the intelligence services have flagged.

It doesn't remove the great standard of work GCHQ and co are doing but probably ranks down the threat mentally when it's actually more often than not picking up guys that present a risk rather than an imminent threat.

I'm sure they are picking up "people of interest" regularly but the way it was described to me was that these were people actively involved in specific plans for specific attacks rather than someone who was training crows or buying lots of peroxide.