blandy Posted December 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2015 9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I felt that was a little simplistic, so thought I'd be equally simplistic. So yes, well spotted, that over simplification was the intention. You'll make a politician one day, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Re the apocalypse - like ISIS I wonder if there are individuals or groups in opposition who also believe that they are preparing for the end of time but it is their side that will be the victorious ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted December 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2015 4 hours ago, Shaw_nuff said: We need an all out 'war' on religion in the hope that common sense prevails. In the UK alone we could get rid of all religious schools and put a massive emphasis on science subjects. Education alone could rid us of this poison once and for all. Just so I'm clear what you're saying here....people of different faiths can't agree on stuff and this has sometimes led to wars and fighting and that. You disagree with their worldview so we should eradicate it. And that's with no irony? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 12 hours ago, Shaw_nuff said: I don't really care what the basic christian message is. Any more than I care about the constant message pushed out about Islam being the 'religion of peace'. I look at what they do and preach. Christianity has caused immense harm in the world and still does (contraception in Africa for one). Problems between Hindus and Muslims have killed millions. The less I say about Israel the better. All religions are incompatible. Their basic premise is you're wrong and I'm right, I'm going to heaven, you're not. And yet they're ALL batshit crazy. I'm not going to pull punches and be all PC about it. You have to have a seriously compartmentalised brain to believe the crap in any holy book. So yes, I stand by my claim that I question the mental health of anyone religious. Obviously it depends on the depth of their faith - it may only be a mild form of brainwashing for some, but if they believe the any of the creation myths for example they're deranged in my book. We need an all out 'war' on religion in the hope that common sense prevails. In the UK alone we could get rid of all religious schools and put a massive emphasis on science subjects. Education alone could rid us of this poison once and for all. dont agree with the last bit. there are plenty of decent religious people and religion has done many good things to people. its not all bad and just because it does create a lot of war its unfair to totally point to it as evil.if there was no religion there would still be war because thats what humans do best and thats how the world operates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted December 9, 2015 Administrator Share Posted December 9, 2015 18 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: dont agree with the last bit. there are plenty of decent religious people and religion has done many good things to people. its not all bad and just because it does create a lot of war its unfair to totally point to it as evil.if there was no religion there would still be war because thats what humans do best and thats how the world operates. How do you know this though? We've never had a world in which children aren't indoctrinated to accept that received stories aren't true. If people - all people - were rational thinkers, would there be war? Probably. But you can't claim that as a fact. This lack of critical thought is why some people accept what the media (or their religion) tells them rather than being able to think about things for themselves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 obviously not facts but just my opinion. who knows how the world works,was created and how it will end but im pretty sure with or without religion there will always be war. is a religious person a nut job? do all religious people push their religion and beliefs on other people? i do think the world would possibly be a better place without it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2015 11 hours ago, omariqy said: Re the apocalypse - like ISIS I wonder if there are individuals or groups in opposition who also believe that they are preparing for the end of time but it is their side that will be the victorious ones. How do you have a victorious side in an end of time scenario? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 11 hours ago, omariqy said: Re the apocalypse - like ISIS I wonder if there are individuals or groups in opposition who also believe that they are preparing for the end of time but it is their side that will be the victorious ones. very interesting point. would not surprise me if some people high up in the US government believe in some higher power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 20 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: very interesting point. would not surprise me if some people high up in the US government believe in some higher power. I think it is widely acknowledged that declaring a strong belief in 'some higher power' (typically 'God') is essential in any chance of living in the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Evangelical vote isn't acknowledged without reason. And that's without mentioning the general conservative Christian demographic that makes up most of the middle of the nation. An openly atheist candidate cannot win a US election. Whether that belief is honest and genuine is open to debate I guess. Also, for a laugh, throw in secret files on aliens or something. Top brass in the US government as a whole will definitely have some belief in higher powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: How do you have a victorious side in an end of time scenario? They don't call it the Rapture for nothing you know. It would have been sooner, but Satan's busy with an uprising in hell lead by Thatcher and Savile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2015 59 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: very interesting point. would not surprise me if some people high up in the US government believe in some higher power. Like banks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 46 minutes ago, Chindie said: Also, for a laugh, throw in secret files on aliens or something. I am more certain in the existence of some form of alien life, albeit not on Earth or within our solar system, than the existence of any sort of god(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: 13 hours ago, omariqy said: 11 hours ago, omariqy said: Re the apocalypse - like ISIS I wonder if there are individuals or groups in opposition who also believe that they are preparing for the end of time but it is their side that will be the victorious ones. How do you have a victorious side in an end of time scenario? Edited December 9, 2015 by Wainy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 3 hours ago, TrentVilla said: How do you have a victorious side in an end of time scenario? I'd put my money on the cockroaches and the scorpions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 19 hours ago, choffer said: Just so I'm clear what you're saying here....people of different faiths can't agree on stuff and this has sometimes led to wars and fighting and that. You disagree with their worldview so we should eradicate it. And that's with no irony? Er... no I put 'war' clearly in inverted commas. I would never advocate removing religion by force, just by reasoning. Let's face it, if everyone was left to their own devices with a decent education in this age of science instead of having their particular brand of myth pumped into their head from birth, then no one would believe this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 11 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: obviously not facts but just my opinion. who knows how the world works,was created and how it will end but im pretty sure with or without religion there will always be war. is a religious person a nut job? do all religious people push their religion and beliefs on other people? i do think the world would possibly be a better place without it. Is that bit in bold serious? Also - national socialism was evil, but it would wrong to assume all nazis were evil people. Same goes for religion and the religious. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins 'of course not all religious people do bad things. But religion can cause otherwise decent people to do bad things'. It concerns me greatly that someone in a position like George Bush takes a 'consultation with God' as a major part of his decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 On 12/9/2015 at 08:07, Shaw_nuff said: I don't really care what the basic christian message is. Any more than I care about the constant message pushed out about Islam being the 'religion of peace'. I look at what they do and preach. Christianity has caused immense harm in the world and still does (contraception in Africa for one). Problems between Hindus and Muslims have killed millions. The less I say about Israel the better. All religions are incompatible. Their basic premise is you're wrong and I'm right, I'm going to heaven, you're not. And yet they're ALL batshit crazy. I'm not going to pull punches and be all PC about it. You have to have a seriously compartmentalised brain to believe the crap in any holy book. So yes, I stand by my claim that I question the mental health of anyone religious. Obviously it depends on the depth of their faith - it may only be a mild form of brainwashing for some, but if they believe the any of the creation myths for example they're deranged in my book. We need an all out 'war' on religion in the hope that common sense prevails. In the UK alone we could get rid of all religious schools and put a massive emphasis on science subjects. Education alone could rid us of this poison once and for all. I don't understand the idea that declaring all out 'war' on religion would lead to common sense; religions thrive on persecution and common sense is entirely subjective. Judeo-Christian religion is based on tales of persecution and most of the bible is either about the persecution of the Jews or the persecution of Jesus, and then the subsequent religious texts are about the persecution of the saints and the glorification of martyrs. It seems very unlikely that the disappearance of religion would mean that peace, love and understanding, would suddenly break out. We would be forced to to invent other reasons to justify why others should be oppressed or murdered so our greed cult can go on unabated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted December 10, 2015 Administrator Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, MakemineVanilla said: It seems very unlikely that the disappearance of religion would mean that peace, love and understanding, would suddenly break out. We would be forced to to invent other reasons to justify why others should be oppressed or murdered so our greed cult can go on unabated. You're probably right, but if people are rational, rather than emotional, would this hold true? The human nature to group people into "us" and "other" is pervasive, but not insurmountable. Religions (all religions) rely on this lack of rational thought and that's why they do everything they can to control education. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 6 minutes ago, limpid said: You're probably right, but if people are rational, rather than emotional, would this hold true? The human nature to group people into "us" and "other" is pervasive, but not insurmountable. Religions (all religions) rely on this lack of rational thought and that's why they do everything they can to control education. I see rationality as a faculty which people engage on occasion but I don't see it as a normal state of mind. The people who seem the most rational are high-functioning autistic/Aspergers people but so-called 'normal' people seem to be pretty irrational most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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