CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I voted PBGHTJ fwiw. Most of the reasons why we are still crap are still there: No creativity, no money to buy it with, bad luck with injuries. But we are really, REALLY crap, aren't we? Seeing as we might have to play with Ciaran Clark and without Fabian Delph, I can't see a miracle turnaround happening no matter who the manager is. But at this rate we're going to get to the point where we've got nothing to lose by trying someone else. Anyway, RL has to at least give him until January by all the laws of professional and human decency. Those who blame PL for it all are going to have to accept this. Lerner isn't the sort of bloke to sack someone he works closely with less than six months after giving him a new contract (could be wrong about this, but I doubt it). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's been a while since we had some actual updates but it feels like Lerner is going nowhere and us getting a multi-billionaire sugar daddy is increasingly unlikely, it even feels like that era in football is passing. There must be a stipulation in Lambert's new contract around performance and termination, if Villa had been riding high Lambert would have been able to negotiate amazing terms but seeing as we have been circling the toilet bowl for years you would have thought the contract would have been drawn in disappearing ink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I voted PBGHTJ fwiw. Most of the reasons why we are still crap are still there: No creativity, no money to buy it with, bad luck with injuries. Except the ~£8m that he was afforded to bid for Cleverley this summer. Or the ~£7m he payed for Kozak the summer before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Do we have to have the same ambitions as the owner? No, and we don't have to like the weather either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 He's got to start changing it up after 5 games with no goal. I would rather see us go for it against Spurs than slump to another pathetic defeat. 4-2-3-1 -----------------------Guzan----------------------- Hutton-------Vlaar-------Senderos--------Cissokho --------------Sanchez-----Cleverley------------- Agbonlahor----------Grealish---------------Nzogbia --------------------------Benteke-------------------- We have to sacrifice Westwood or Cleverley for a more attacking midfielder and I don't mean Richardson. However I fully expect to see Sanchez dropped and Richardson back in. Christ Lambert depresses me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I voted PBGHTJ fwiw. Most of the reasons why we are still crap are still there: No creativity, no money to buy it with, bad luck with injuries. Except the ~£8m that he was afforded to bid for Cleverley this summer. Or the ~£7m he payed for Kozak the summer before that. Come on, criticise Lamberts tactics and motivation if you think you know better (hey, maybe you do), and point at the results by all means, but please don't suggest we've been throwing money at the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I voted PBGHTJ fwiw. Most of the reasons why we are still crap are still there: No creativity, no money to buy it with, bad luck with injuries. But we are really, REALLY crap, aren't we? Seeing as we might have to play with Ciaran Clark and without Fabian Delph, I can't see a miracle turnaround happening no matter who the manager is. But at this rate we're going to get to the point where we've got nothing to lose by trying someone else. Anyway, RL has to at least give him until January by all the laws of professional and human decency. Those who blame PL for it all are going to have to accept this. Lerner isn't the sort of bloke to sack someone he works closely with less than six months after giving him a new contract (could be wrong about this, but I doubt it). Plus two of our best performing players Senderos and Hutton are out for Sunday and probably and could be out a while. So once all injuries taken into account we are left with Guzan - still pretty solid Given - could still do a job if asked Lowton - who didn't look great v QPR and now argueing with fans Vlaar - who looks way off in terms of match sharpness and fitness Clark - who just can't defend well full stop Baker - who can defend but usually he and Vlaar are not a good combo, that is if he doesn't go off with a head injury in the meantime Okore - sounds like the injury has really taken it's toll and won't feature for a good while if at all Cissokho - his defending has been pretty average - not as bad as Clark or Lowton but still questionable, his threat going fwd seems to have been identified by other teams and easily snuffed out. Sanchez - who mistakes aside looked good v QPR Cleverly - Westwood mark 2 - tidy but rarely affective Westwood - Cleverly mark 1 - both players aren't bad but do the same job? Bacuna - out of favour and sh*te at right back if he does play there Gabby - good for about 5 minutes per game, which is great if that involves a shot on goal or assist in that time Weimann - see above Benteke - Not fit, would rather he came of the bench rather than we carry him Cole - limited by age and injury, but even if he is fit i can't see how he would fit into Lambert's style of play Grealish - not considered to be ready Edited October 30, 2014 by VillanousOne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Cissokho - his defending has been pretty average - not as bad as Clark or Lowton but still questionable, his threat going fwd seems to have been identified by other teams and easily snuffed out. Oh, good, here's that one thing I disagree with in the list of 17, so now I can set about ridiculing your entire post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Come on, criticise Lamberts tactics and motivation if you think you know better (hey, maybe you do), and point at the results by all means, but please don't suggest we've been throwing money at the squad. You are willfully missing the point. You said that he's never had the money to buy a creative player and I've just provided two examples of money that could've been used on a creative player. So it's fair to say that your original claim is illegitimate. Edited October 30, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Again on that formation, what's the point in Gabby and Nzogbia. We are unable to do anything out wide for whatever reason. You're just wasting 2 players having them out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that, even if we had the most creative player in the world available to us, that we would be utterly unable to use him properly *edit* I'm also suspicious that Lambert hasn't REALLY been interested in signing that kind of player, or we'd have one Edited October 30, 2014 by P3te 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Come on, criticise Lamberts tactics and motivation if you think you know better (hey, maybe you do), and point at the results by all means, but please don't suggest we've been throwing money at the squad. You are willfully missing the point. You said that he's never had the money to buy a creative player and I've just provided two examples of money that could've been used on a creative player. So your original claim is illegitimate. Well Kozak subsequently proved to be an inspired buy at a time when everyone was wondering why the hell we might need a backup striker. Now he's on the long list of injured, which some seem to think means that he was a terrible signing. Cleverley also has a place in the squad of any PL team for 6 or 8 million. He might not be that creative, but saying we should buy someone creative and finding a better player than TC for 8 million who is prepared to join struggling Aston Villa during a wage squeeze is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It is most certainly not worth gambling. It would be madness sacking and paying off a Lambert who just signed a new contract at any time before the end of the season while the club remain outside the relegation zone. Who cares about paying lambert? Do you honestly think that money would go on players anyway? Is just surviving all you care about? I mean I want to stay in the league but there has to be something more than just surviving and playing the worst football in the league. There has to be something to actually look forward to, a plan, a style, an ambition of some sort. And I don't think we will go down under lambert who is under performing so I don't think it would be much of a gamble. That's really the aim under this current ownership. Anything else is just a bonus to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I voted PBGHTJ fwiw. Most of the reasons why we are still crap are still there: No creativity, no money to buy it with, bad luck with injuries. But we are really, REALLY crap, aren't we? Seeing as we might have to play with Ciaran Clark and without Fabian Delph, I can't see a miracle turnaround happening no matter who the manager is. But at this rate we're going to get to the point where we've got nothing to lose by trying someone else. Anyway, RL has to at least give him until January by all the laws of professional and human decency. Those who blame PL for it all are going to have to accept this. Lerner isn't the sort of bloke to sack someone he works closely with less than six months after giving him a new contract (could be wrong about this, but I doubt it). I have watched with admiration how Mr Lerner has extracted himself from the waterfall of criticism that was falling on him all summer and deflected it all onto poor old PL's shoulders. I don't think Lambert is up to the job so I probably wouldn't GHTJ, but it's a bit rich that all pressure is now on him to resign. Lerner out at the same time as Lambert for me!! Edited October 30, 2014 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 30, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Great analogy there to be fair. That's the important question: Is Paul Lambert getting the most out of the players he brought to the club, as well as the ones that were already here? It doesn't matter how much he spent on those players, or whether they were first choice or not. What matters is the manager's ability to get them playing to the best of their abilities in a system that suits them. And the answer to that question is, IMO, no. A resounding no. All that remains to know is if he can change that or not Two things spring to mind: 1. He bought better quality players into the club but he is not capable of getting the best out of them = he is a poor manager. or 2. He bought players into the club that are no better than what he already had = he is a poor manager. For what it's worth I am running with number 1. Either way though he has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Well Kozak subsequently proved to be an inspired buy at a time when everyone was wondering why the hell we might need a backup striker. Now he's on the long list of injured, which some seem to think means that he was a terrible signing. No, he didn't. Cleverley also has a place in the squad of any PL team for 6 or 8 million. He might not be that creative, but saying we should buy someone creative and finding a better player than TC for 8 million who is prepared to join struggling Aston Villa during a wage squeeze is a different story. So Cleverley has come here on the mimimum wage I take it then? We needed an offensive midfielder that might offer something the others we currently have do not possess, Lambert decided to sign a sideways-passing workhorse instead. Edited October 30, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Come on, criticise Lamberts tactics and motivation if you think you know better (hey, maybe you do), and point at the results by all means, but please don't suggest we've been throwing money at the squad. You are willfully missing the point. You said that he's never had the money to buy a creative player and I've just provided two examples of money that could've been used on a creative player. So it's fair to say that your original claim is illegitimate. in his defence how many creative players in their prime within our wage budget could we attract I'm increasingly getting the feeling that, even if we had the most creative player in the world available to us, that we would be utterly unable to use him properly *edit* I'm also suspicious that Lambert hasn't REALLY been interested in signing that kind of player, or we'd have one Kiyotake, Hoolahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hmm….sadly the very fact you are saying that shows how far we have fallen. Why are so many people so obsessed with pointing out stuff that show how far we've fallen? Yes, we've fallen very far. Nobody is happy about it but its the reality. Very sad. Much crying. Maybe its time to stop wallowing in self pity and get over it. Sacking the manager won't put more money in the transfer fund. I was going to write out a point by point rebuttal but reading through it seems like you've attributed every success he's ever had to blind luck. I've already done that dance, its shit. The rest is just the same nebulous, cookie cutter complaints some fans of every team in history have had. I wouldn't call his time here successful but his transfer activity has been relatively successful and he's finished within shouting distance of mid table both seasons despite having to shop in the bargain bin. I wouldn't mind if he was replaced by a new owner but the mindset of "he needs to go" in our current state without a specific, coherent plan for an alternative is what gets teams into shit. No decent manager is going to want to take a job where the fans expect a lot more than the owner is prepared to fund. What condescending claptrap, we've been in the same shouting distance to relegation as we have been to midtable. And Benteke aside, assuming he starts scoring again, Lambert's transfers haven't been too good at all. We supposedly have a good squad that should finish 10-12th. He had to build that squad from the bottom up, on a pittance. That would mean his transfers have been at least decent, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 in his defence how many creative players in their prime within our wage budget could we attract Well Kiyotake, who Lambert wanted to sign last summer, went for £3.5m. He could even have utilised the loan-market if necessary. The reason we have no creative player three seasons down the line is purely down to Paul Lambert, nobody else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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