briny_ear Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I wouldn't say the squad is VASTLY improved by the purchases Lambert has made but, even if you think it is, that just emphasises the puzzle about why we are perfroming so much worse under him. (See below.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) The squad is vastly improved, for much less money (good performance there from Lambert), but he's assembled a group of better players that he's got playing worse than the ones that were in before them. Yes, he's done a great job getting cost down, BUT that doesn't excuse the fact that he's built a squad that's better than the one he inherited, but he still cannot get the best out of them. Maybe he'd be better as a scout or in a developmental role, because although he seems to be alright at spotting players for good prices it's becoming increasingly apparent he doesn't have the foggiest notion how to use them once they're signed FWIW, this is an excellent post and one which I (an apparent "Lambert supporter") completely agree with. The test was always this season. I've been saying for ages that, for me, he's got until this Christmas. He's had financial restrictions etc. etc. but this is now a squad that has been developed over 2 seasons - the crap (for the most part) has been rid of. We should be seeing at least some improvement, but we're currently not. I'm actually not fussed about losing 5 games in a row given the teams we've played, but the manner of the defeats have been poor. Similarly, in beating Stoke, we didn't play that well - just shut them out. Hull and Liverpool were good performances and the ball retention against Q.P.R. was good too. Outside of that, not much cheer. Lambert has been unlucky with injures, of course. We're a side that is massively reliant on Benteke and, whilst this is partly down to transfers etc., I don't particularly blame Lambert for that. However, the team should still be performing, with the ball, better than it has been. I don't want Lambert sacked right now and I'd like him to succeed at the club as he seems to be a pretty humble guy with the interests of the club at heart (which seems quite rare these days). Time is running out though. There simply has to be an improvement this season and it needs to start now. Edit: Although you do say "vastly improved", which is a bit of a stretch I think Edited October 30, 2014 by bobzy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The squad is vastly improved, for much less money (good performance there from Lambert), but he's assembled a group of better players that he's got playing worse than the ones that were in before them. Yes, he's done a great job getting cost down, BUT that doesn't excuse the fact that he's built a squad that's better than the one he inherited, but he still cannot get the best out of them. Maybe he'd be better as a scout or in a developmental role, because although he seems to be alright at spotting players for good prices it's becoming increasingly apparent he doesn't have the foggiest notion how to use them once they're signed FWIW, this is an excellent post and one which I (an apparent "Lambert supporter") completely agree with. The test was always this season. I've been saying for ages that, for me, he's got until this Christmas. He's had financial restrictions etc. etc. but this is now a squad that has been developed over 2 seasons - the crap (for the most part) has been rid of. We should be seeing at least some improvement, but we're currently not. I'm actually not fussed about losing 5 games in a row given the teams we've played, but the manner of the defeats have been poor. Similarly, in beating Stoke, we didn't play that well - just shut them out. Hull and Liverpool were good performances and the ball retention against Q.P.R. was good too. Outside of that, not much cheer. Lambert has been unlucky with injures, of course. We're a side that is massively reliant on Benteke and, whilst this is partly down to transfers etc., I don't particularly blame Lambert for that. However, the team should still be performing, with the ball, better than it has been. I don't want Lambert sacked right now and I'd like him to succeed at the club as he seems to be a pretty humble guy with the interests of the club at heart (which seems quite rare these days). Time is running out though. There simply has to be an improvement this season and it needs to start now. Edit: Although you do say "vastly improved", which is a bit of a stretch I think That's a fair post Bobszy. Unlike you I would get rid now but I also realise that Lerner is an idiot and we are all get to see what happens up to Christmas where we will have played most sides once. This is the best indication of where we stand with Lambert. There are glaringly obvious areas that need addressed and he needs to earn his coin and do his job properly very quickly. He needs to kick Gabby and Andi up the arse by dropping them and not letting them think they are automatic starters. He needs to sort out the midfield shape and get Cleverley off the wing! We need to improve on crosses and set pieces! I really wanted Lambert to succeed but I worry he will never 'get' whats needed to be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The squad is vastly improved, for much less money (good performance there from Lambert), but he's assembled a group of better players that he's got playing worse than the ones that were in before them. Yes, he's done a great job getting cost down, BUT that doesn't excuse the fact that he's built a squad that's better than the one he inherited, but he still cannot get the best out of them. Maybe he'd be better as a scout or in a developmental role, because although he seems to be alright at spotting players for good prices it's becoming increasingly apparent he doesn't have the foggiest notion how to use them once they're signed FWIW, this is an excellent post and one which I (an apparent "Lambert supporter") completely agree with. The test was always this season. I've been saying for ages that, for me, he's got until this Christmas. He's had financial restrictions etc. etc. but this is now a squad that has been developed over 2 seasons - the crap (for the most part) has been rid of. We should be seeing at least some improvement, but we're currently not. I'm actually not fussed about losing 5 games in a row given the teams we've played, but the manner of the defeats have been poor. Similarly, in beating Stoke, we didn't play that well - just shut them out. Hull and Liverpool were good performances and the ball retention against Q.P.R. was good too. Outside of that, not much cheer. Lambert has been unlucky with injures, of course. We're a side that is massively reliant on Benteke and, whilst this is partly down to transfers etc., I don't particularly blame Lambert for that. However, the team should still be performing, with the ball, better than it has been. I don't want Lambert sacked right now and I'd like him to succeed at the club as he seems to be a pretty humble guy with the interests of the club at heart (which seems quite rare these days). Time is running out though. There simply has to be an improvement this season and it needs to start now. Edit: Although you do say "vastly improved", which is a bit of a stretch I think A fourth from bottom Everton and a bottom QPR! TBH I AM FUSSED about losing 5 in a row and even more FUSSED that we have failed to score in any of those games whilst letting in 13 and any Villa fan should be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) So he just froze out useful players like Darren Bent and Alan Hutton because he felt like it? Personal beef maybe? Of course he was forced to freeze them out. What was the whole bomb squad about? Why did they all happen to be the highest earners? Why am I still walking you through the recent history of our club? Sorry but that is nonsense. He wouldn't have made a player captain who he was commanded to freeze out. I don't know why I need to state the obvious but here goes; Bent was frozen out because Lambert preferred Benteke who better suited his system and importantly is a better player. As for Hutton, yes I already accepted that he and Warnock were probably frozen out on instruction, or did you miss that bit? You can make that claim for players who were never given a chance from the start, not for players who initially played in the team and remained in the squad for the season. Regarding the eventual wage-bill reduction, yes, everybody knows that was the aim and Lerner probably wouldn't have sanctioned new deals for some of those players even if Lambert persisted with them. But he clearly wasn't forced not to use every high-earner in the meantime. So I'll say it one last time, during Lambert's first season, he had the pretty much the same standard of squad as McLeish. I cannot be bothered to reiterate this any further. Edited October 30, 2014 by Isa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The squad is vastly improved, for much less money (good performance there from Lambert), but he's assembled a group of better players that he's got playing worse than the ones that were in before them. Yes, he's done a great job getting cost down, BUT that doesn't excuse the fact that he's built a squad that's better than the one he inherited, but he still cannot get the best out of them. Maybe he'd be better as a scout or in a developmental role, because although he seems to be alright at spotting players for good prices it's becoming increasingly apparent he doesn't have the foggiest notion how to use them once they're signed FWIW, this is an excellent post and one which I (an apparent "Lambert supporter") completely agree with. The test was always this season. I've been saying for ages that, for me, he's got until this Christmas. He's had financial restrictions etc. etc. but this is now a squad that has been developed over 2 seasons - the crap (for the most part) has been rid of. We should be seeing at least some improvement, but we're currently not. I'm actually not fussed about losing 5 games in a row given the teams we've played, but the manner of the defeats have been poor. Similarly, in beating Stoke, we didn't play that well - just shut them out. Hull and Liverpool were good performances and the ball retention against Q.P.R. was good too. Outside of that, not much cheer. Lambert has been unlucky with injures, of course. We're a side that is massively reliant on Benteke and, whilst this is partly down to transfers etc., I don't particularly blame Lambert for that. However, the team should still be performing, with the ball, better than it has been. I don't want Lambert sacked right now and I'd like him to succeed at the club as he seems to be a pretty humble guy with the interests of the club at heart (which seems quite rare these days). Time is running out though. There simply has to be an improvement this season and it needs to start now. Edit: Although you do say "vastly improved", which is a bit of a stretch I think A fourth from bottom Everton and a bottom QPR! TBH I AM FUSSED about losing 5 in a row and even more FUSSED that we have failed to score in any of those games whilst letting in 13 and any Villa fan should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The squad is vastly improved, for much less money (good performance there from Lambert), but he's assembled a group of better players that he's got playing worse than the ones that were in before them. Yes, he's done a great job getting cost down, BUT that doesn't excuse the fact that he's built a squad that's better than the one he inherited, but he still cannot get the best out of them. Maybe he'd be better as a scout or in a developmental role, because although he seems to be alright at spotting players for good prices it's becoming increasingly apparent he doesn't have the foggiest notion how to use them once they're signed FWIW, this is an excellent post and one which I (an apparent "Lambert supporter") completely agree with. The test was always this season. I've been saying for ages that, for me, he's got until this Christmas. He's had financial restrictions etc. etc. but this is now a squad that has been developed over 2 seasons - the crap (for the most part) has been rid of. We should be seeing at least some improvement, but we're currently not. I'm actually not fussed about losing 5 games in a row given the teams we've played, but the manner of the defeats have been poor. Similarly, in beating Stoke, we didn't play that well - just shut them out. Hull and Liverpool were good performances and the ball retention against Q.P.R. was good too. Outside of that, not much cheer. Lambert has been unlucky with injures, of course. We're a side that is 8070571335 reliant on Benteke and, whilst this is partly down to transfers etc., I don't particularly blame Lambert for that. However, the team should still be performing, with the ball, better than it has been. I don't want Lambert sacked right now and I'd like him to succeed at the club as he seems to be a pretty humble guy with the interests of the club at heart (which seems quite rare these days). Time is running out though. There simply has to be an improvement this season and it needs to start now. Edit: Although you do say "vastly improved", which is a bit of a stretch I think This is exactly my thoughts but I'm just a bit further down the road on him needing to be sacked. I'd like nothing more than for us to go on an unbeaten run and with growing confidence start to play some good football but I've seen nothing to suggest that's remotely possible. If we don't improve in the next 2 months I fear we could be in severe trouble that's why I think we need to act sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) If Lambert really wanted one, we'd have one. There's, cumulatively, been enough money there, and he's opted to use it elsewhere We've got one: Joe Cole. The money spent elsewhere has gone on Cissokho and Sanchez (who fills the position of DM, which most of VT wanted more than an AM). Someone is going to say something about the LB position now. Really unforgiveable that the manager had signed two LB's for the monumental combined sum of nearly four and a half million pounds, and NEITHER of them was any good. Let us now focus on this instance of complete incompetence and not worry about whether a clear majority of Lambert's other signings were any good for the price paid. none of that changes what I'm saying, which is the manager thought that a number 10 was instrumental to his vision, we'd already have one at the club Apparently he persued Kiyotake and Hoolahan (possibly others!) but, for whatever reason, couldn't get them. Does that mean he's abandoned all hope? Or would you rather we bought just "any old" number 10 than one the manager feels will fit the mould? (i.e: Joe Cole) Edited October 30, 2014 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) He had enough money to buy kiyotake or hoolihan in the summer. He's had enough money to buy any number 10 who'd join us, realistically. My point again is that is if it was seen as a priority we'd have one Edited October 30, 2014 by P3te Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 If Lambert really wanted one, we'd have one. There's, cumulatively, been enough money there, and he's opted to use it elsewhere We've got one: Joe Cole. The money spent elsewhere has gone on Cissokho and Sanchez (who fills the position of DM, which most of VT wanted more than an AM). Someone is going to say something about the LB position now. Really unforgiveable that the manager had signed two LB's for the monumental combined sum of nearly four and a half million pounds, and NEITHER of them was any good. Let us now focus on this instance of complete incompetence and not worry about whether a clear majority of Lambert's other signings were any good for the price paid. none of that changes what I'm saying, which is the manager thought that a number 10 was instrumental to his vision, we'd already have one at the club Apparently he persued Kiyotake and Hoolahan (possibly others!) but, for whatever reason, couldn't get them. Does that mean he's abandoned all hope? Or would you rather we bought just "any old" number 10 than one the manager feels will fit the mould? (i.e: Joe Cole) All this talk about a No10 seems to miss the fact we didn't play a system to accommodate one. And now we have Cole he prefers to play Gabby off the striker instead! Does anybody know what formation we played against QPR when Cole and Bent came on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Agree with Pete. If it was a priority he would have signed one. We had £8 million and I'd imagine decent wages to throw at cleverly. Could that not have gone towards a proper number 10? Surely a limited budget doesn't give him an excuse for every decision he makes. How much does he need to spend before he's accountable for them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 If Lambert really wanted one, we'd have one. There's, cumulatively, been enough money there, and he's opted to use it elsewhere We've got one: Joe Cole. The money spent elsewhere has gone on Cissokho and Sanchez (who fills the position of DM, which most of VT wanted more than an AM). Someone is going to say something about the LB position now. Really unforgiveable that the manager had signed two LB's for the monumental combined sum of nearly four and a half million pounds, and NEITHER of them was any good. Let us now focus on this instance of complete incompetence and not worry about whether a clear majority of Lambert's other signings were any good for the price paid. none of that changes what I'm saying, which is the manager thought that a number 10 was instrumental to his vision, we'd already have one at the club Apparently he persued Kiyotake and Hoolahan (possibly others!) but, for whatever reason, couldn't get them. Does that mean he's abandoned all hope? Or would you rather we bought just "any old" number 10 than one the manager feels will fit the mould? (i.e: Joe Cole) All this talk about a No10 seems to miss the fact we didn't play a system to accommodate one. And now we have Cole he prefers to play Gabby off the striker instead! Does anybody know what formation we played against QPR when Cole and Bent came on?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Agree with Pete. If it was a priority he would have signed one. We had £8 million and I'd imagine decent wages to throw at cleverly. Could that not have gone towards a proper number 10? Surely a limited budget doesn't give him an excuse for every decision he makes. How much does he need to spend before he's accountable for them? We bought Cleverly for £8m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 That's a fair post bobzy and I can see why some feel that way. I don't agree with the argument that some feel he's done as well as can be expected. I think on the whole its been awful. Hopefully we do start turning it around. Ultimately we're never going to build any kind of success with Lerner and Lambert in charge. The owner wants out and the managers not good enough. Its going to be ugly survival till Lerner leaves. If you could tell me Lerner was leaving in the summer I wouldn't say a negative thing about Lambert for the rest of the season. I'd accept the ugly football and poor results to scrape survival. But because I don't know when Lerner will finally leave I'm just done with us being awful and I'd just like a change to see if we can improve even if it is by a small amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Agree with Pete. If it was a priority he would have signed one. We had £8 million and I'd imagine decent wages to throw at cleverly. Could that not have gone towards a proper number 10? Surely a limited budget doesn't give him an excuse for every decision he makes. How much does he need to spend before he's accountable for them? We bought Cleverly for £8m? No but that's what we bid for him and it was accepted. It only turned into a loan due to Cleverley's hesitance but the money was undoubtedly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Agree with Pete. If it was a priority he would have signed one. We had £8 million and I'd imagine decent wages to throw at cleverly. Could that not have gone towards a proper number 10? Surely a limited budget doesn't give him an excuse for every decision he makes. How much does he need to spend before he's accountable for them? We bought Cleverly for £8m? You know the money was there and it was only his agent messing us around that resulted in the loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Fee agreed with United says the money was there and we were willing to use it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 All this talk about a No10 seems to miss the fact we didn't play a system to accommodate one That's the thing really. The "number 10" is a mystical unicorn. Every window "this'll be the one where we get the link up man". Will it feck. It's not coming because we wouldn't know what to do with one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's the same reason we play with no proper width and our wide forwards are picked based equally on how much they'll run back and the threat they offer going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpt666 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 David moyes .............it gets a ten from Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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