CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Two things spring to mind: 1. He bought better quality players into the club but he is not capable of getting the best out of them = he is a poor manager. or 2. He bought players into the club that are no better than what he already had = he is a poor manager. For what it's worth I am running with number 1. I'd be interested to know which of our exciting megabucks signings you think Lambert isn't getting the best out of, and why. And there's also a possibility number... 3. He bought players into the club that are no better than what he already had because he is operating on a budget = we still don't know if he is a poor manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We supposedly have a good squad that should finish 10-12th. He had to build that squad from the bottom up, on a pittance. That would mean his transfers have been at least decent, no? Not really, no. Mainly because ~£58m (if we included the £8m he will blow on Cleverley in January) isn't a pittance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Two things spring to mind: 1. He bought better quality players into the club but he is not capable of getting the best out of them = he is a poor manager. or 2. He bought players into the club that are no better than what he already had = he is a poor manager. For what it's worth I am running with number 1. I'd be interested to know which of our exciting megabucks signings you think Lambert isn't getting the best out of, and why. And there's also a possibility number... 3. He bought players into the club that are no better than what he already had because he is operating on a budget = we still don't know if he is a poor manager. The budget thing is getting to be a bit of a stuck record now and I have heard it so many times being rolled out as an excuse for the dross Lambert serves up nearly every week. If your No. 3 is true why did he bother? What is the point of bringing in players that are no better than what we already have just because there is a budget? It's like me having a s**t car but then replacing it with an equally s**t car because the budget won't allow me to buy a good one. I might as well have conserved my efforts and kept with the original s**t car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The budget thing is getting to be a bit of a stuck record now and I have heard it so many times being rolled out as an excuse for the dross Lambert serves up nearly every week. To save yourself a lot of anguish, consider the possibility that the "stuck record" is a concrete reason why we are served dross nearly every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 What condescending claptrap, we've been in the same shouting distance to relegation as we have been to midtable. And Benteke aside, assuming he starts scoring again, Lambert's transfers haven't been too good at all. "our squad isn't that bad at all"... "Lambert's transfers haven't been too good at all". Which is it please? Should be doing better with Lambert's squad or is Lambert's squad poor? Haters gonna hate. You seem to dismiss players Lambert has inherited. He's built an average squad and isn't doing very well with them at the moment. Not sure what your last line is trying to prove. If we weren't performing badly I could understand you trying to make out people just criticise for the sake of it. But doing that when you look at our form over the last 12 months seems pointless. The players Lambert has inherited are not the better players in our team. The last line doesn't "prove" anything. It's just that people who dislike Lambert, dislike him regardless. He can't both have made a "not bad at all" squad yet also have made "not too good at all" transfers. It's just hating for hating's sake. Fabien delph is not one of our best players? Alan Hutton hasn't been one of our best players this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The budget thing is getting to be a bit of a stuck record now and I have heard it so many times being rolled out as an excuse for the dross Lambert serves up nearly every week. To save yourself a lot of anguish, consider the possibility that the "stuck record" is a concrete reason why we are served dross nearly every week. Its a good reason as to why his job is a difficult one. It doesn't justify the awful football, poor results and consistent losses to lower league teams with much worse financial restraints. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The budget thing is getting to be a bit of a stuck record now and I have heard it so many times being rolled out as an excuse for the dross Lambert serves up nearly every week. To save yourself a lot of anguish, consider the possibility that the "stuck record" is a concrete reason why we are served dross nearly every week. Nice of you to select a small portion of my post and answer a question that wasn't asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 What's the excuse for the awful football? You can still try to play decent football whilst staying up. Most fans understand the financial constraints but the football hasn't changed one bit since PL got here. If anyone can give me a good reason why our football is so bad to watch and that it'll improve I would support Lambert as I think having stability and letting a manager build a club is the way forward. The only problem is I've seen nothing to suggest we are building anything or any form of progression. Wigan, Burnley, Bolton, Fulham & Leicester are saying hi And there's countless clubs who ahve been relegated through bad management and playing awful football. Do you have to play crap football to survive? No one thing that definitely get you relegated is constantly being down the bottom. Eventually you don't go on a run or you get a spot of bad luck at the wrong time and you're gone. We havent progressed at all under Lambert and he's making the same decisions and expecting different results. I think that's actually the definition of madness!! He actually believes we have goals in the team. Then goes on to name players that don't score! I think a better manager would get us higher up playing better football than Lambert has with this same squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We supposedly have a good squad that should finish 10-12th. He had to build that squad from the bottom up, on a pittance. That would mean his transfers have been at least decent, no? Not really, no. Mainly because ~£58m (if we included the £8m he will blow on Cleverley in January) isn't a pittance. It is when you're trying to rebuild an entire squad almost from scratch. It's easy to just look at the numbers and come to conclusions, but even so $58M over 3 seasons (5 transfer windows so far) is nowhere near enough to be 10th-12th. The teams that are there, West Ham for example have spent half of that each window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Can you all just wait until mid December at least before trying to judge a team. We'll see how we are playing against beatable opposition with Benteke back up to speed and hopefully a first choice defence. Clark needs to be euthansied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am surprised there are fans who think what we've seen is all we could realistically expect. I can see the valid reasons why some say we might as well keep him but I'm surprised there's some who don't think we should expect better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The budget thing is getting to be a bit of a stuck record now and I have heard it so many times being rolled out as an excuse for the dross Lambert serves up nearly every week. To save yourself a lot of anguish, consider the possibility that the "stuck record" is a concrete reason why we are served dross nearly every week. It is a stuck record though. The small-minded excuse of Lambert having to work on a budget has become something of a skeleton key to his supporters who just shoehorn it into any conversation to explain away his obvious managerial deficiencies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Can you all just wait until mid December at least before trying to judge a team. We'll see how we are playing against beatable opposition with Benteke back up to speed and hopefully a first choice defence. Clark needs to be euthansied. This is his 3rd year now and he's been in charge for around 100 pl games. I think its fair for people to judge what they've seen. Fair enough you want to wait a bit longer but I don't think everyone has to feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We supposedly have a good squad that should finish 10-12th. He had to build that squad from the bottom up, on a pittance. That would mean his transfers have been at least decent, no? Not really, no. Mainly because ~£58m (if we included the £8m he will blow on Cleverley in January) isn't a pittance. It is when you're trying to rebuild an entire squad almost from scratch. It's easy to just look at the numbers and come to conclusions, but even so $58M over 3 seasons (5 transfer windows so far) is nowhere near enough to be 10th-12th. The teams that are there, West Ham for example have spent half of that each window. Counting how much is spent is a bad idea, he had the constraint of not being able to offer wages to attract the vast majority of players he could afford. Which means he went for youth abroad last summer and the 2 best signings from that crop got injured for the season. He's been backed pretty well this summer, looks like he'll be after a winger in the January window too. We should see progress this season, 6 more points and 4 less losses would be good enough for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I still think that's very much doable, even with this horrible run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Its a good reason as to why his job is a difficult one. It doesn't justify the awful football, poor results and consistent losses to lower league teams with much worse financial restraints. I'm guessing you're trying to say that EVEN the budget doesn't justify the awful football, poor results and consistent losses to lower league teams with much worse financial restraints. That means we could argue all day (and maybe we will) about whether it does explain it fully or not, or how fully it explains it if it doesn't explain it fully fully, etc. But I get the strong impression that a lot of fans aren't bothering to look even a millimetre beyond the manager for the explanation, no matter how much they might claim they do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) We supposedly have a good squad that should finish 10-12th. He had to build that squad from the bottom up, on a pittance. That would mean his transfers have been at least decent, no? Not really, no. Mainly because ~£58m (if we included the £8m he will blow on Cleverley in January) isn't a pittance. It is when you're trying to rebuild an entire squad almost from scratch. It's easy to just look at the numbers and come to conclusions, but even so $58M over 3 seasons (5 transfer windows so far) is nowhere near enough to be 10th-12th. The teams that are there, West Ham for example have spent half of that each window. More than 10 members of the first team squad are were inherited. With a further three of them being free transfers. So actually yes, I believe the £58m could have been spent considerably better and having a mid-table squad is the bare minimum I'd expect considering that. Edited October 30, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Can you all just wait until mid December at least before trying to judge a team. We'll see how we are playing against beatable opposition with Benteke back up to speed and hopefully a first choice defence. Clark needs to be euthansied. This is his 3rd year now and he's been in charge for around 100 pl games. I think its fair for people to judge what they've seen. Fair enough you want to wait a bit longer but I don't think everyone has to feel that way. I do not blame him for the past 2 seasons. He was put in an impossible position with his hands tied, a legacy squad he had to put out in the cold and get rid of to lower the wage bill. I think he did very well all things considered. The one blot is our collapse at the end of last season from a good 10th after we beat Chelsea, Benteke got injured, we had all the problems with Culverhouse etc.. so that is a mark on Lambert. If he isn't on 21 or more points at the turn of the year after 19 games I'll begin to start thinking we might need to look for a new manager for the next season. But until then I'm going to let him have the chance he deserves with the team he's assembled. It's hardly his fault Benteke got injured and that man is of HUGE importance to the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Its a good reason as to why his job is a difficult one. It doesn't justify the awful football, poor results and consistent losses to lower league teams with much worse financial restraints. I'm guessing you're trying to say that EVEN the budget doesn't justify the awful football, poor results and consistent losses to lower league teams with much worse financial restraints. That means we could argue all day (and maybe we will) about whether it does explain it fully or not, or how fully it explains it if it doesn't explain it fully fully, etc. But I get the strong impression that a lot of fans aren't bothering to look even a millimetre beyond the manager for the explanation, no matter how much they might claim they do. And I think some fans are ignoring anything the manager does because of the budget. I'm under no illusions that Lerner is the main issue at the club and that Lambert has had a tough job. He hasn't been able to sign top players and he hasn't had lots to spend. But IMO he's still done a poor job even with these restraints. Losing 50% of the time while showing no improvements from McLeish after 2 years just isn't good enough. You obviously feel differently and you're entitled to but I feel he should have and should be doing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The players Lambert has inherited are not the better players in our team. The last line doesn't "prove" anything. It's just that people who dislike Lambert, dislike him regardless. He can't both have made a "not bad at all" squad yet also have made "not too good at all" transfers. It's just hating for hating's sake. Fabien delph is not one of our best players? Alan Hutton hasn't been one of our best players this year? Alan Hutton has been decent in 6 games, yes, but one of our best players? Give over. Delph maybe. Benteke, Guzan (arguably there before, but essentially re-signed by Lambert) and Vlaar are our most important players imo. All Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts