dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) If they don't put up a fight it'll be the players' fault and not Lamert's.How does that work then? Is it not the managers squad and thus his job to motivate them? If they're not motivated then it means he has lost the dressing room, which should mean losing his job. They'll fight. They'll be shit too mind. So if you were playing football and didn't put up a fight (not saying you wouldn't just an hypothetical situation) would you blame the manager or accept that it's your own fault, seeing as your in control of your own actions. Of course it's the players fault. What's your job role, out of interest? Footballers or not, they are human beings. As a manager of sorts myself I know what a big difference I can make in terms of moral and thus productivity. Generally, they are not club men, same as my lads have no long term vested interest in my business outside of keeping their jobs. They have to want to play/work for the manager. The money they earn is irrelevant too, trust me. Basically, it's not black and white. Both player and manager are accountable at all times. Edited January 15, 2015 by dont_do_it_doug. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 15, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Both player and manager are accountable at all times. This is what it boils down to. If a team aren't motivated then the buck stops with the manager, imo, but the players are not blameless. Some players will be professional enough or passionate enough (or both) to give 100% no matter what. But it would be highly unlikely that you'd have a whole team/squad that will do that. The manager's job is to motivate the team. The players' job is to motivate themselves as individuals. Edited January 15, 2015 by Stevo985 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 People prefer black and white thinking because it requires no actual thinking. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 People prefer black and white thinking because it requires no actual thinking. I think that's an unfair comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you have that many players not willing to fight then there is a reason for that? How many teams over the years look not arsed and rubbish and then when a new guy takes over it a completely new dynamic? We even had it with o'neill initially. I agree we could get a short term boost by sacking Lambert. It might be necessary if things carry on the way they are. But we shouldn't expect to land a very good one with finances the way they are. We'd just end up with another manager whose popularity has a constant downward trajectory. The current manager is a calm head in a crisis. He is happy enough to be working in the current conditions. He is slowly improving the team. Sacking him would put is either in a slightly better position or a much, much worse one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you have that many players not willing to fight then there is a reason for that? How many teams over the years look not arsed and rubbish and then when a new guy takes over it a completely new dynamic? We even had it with o'neill initially. I agree we could get a short term boost by sacking Lambert. It might be necessary if things carry on the way they are. But we shouldn't expect to land a very good one with finances the way they are. We'd just end up with another manager whose popularity has a constant downward trajectory. The current manager is a calm head in a crisis. He is happy enough to be working in the current conditions. He is slowly improving the team. Sacking him would put is either in a slightly better position or a much, much worse one. I am struggling to come to terms with this comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 People prefer black and white thinking because it requires no actual thinking. I think that's an unfair comment. I disagree. I think it's a general rule of life. It was not necessarily a comment about you personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) People prefer black and white thinking because it requires no actual thinking. I think that's an unfair comment. I disagree. I think it's a general rule of life. It was not necessarily a comment about you personally. I only said it was an unfair comment because I thought it was aimed at me*, I don't know about it being a general rule of life, I think people might be a little more complex than that. I realise the first sentence looks a bit selfish now. Edited January 15, 2015 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 15, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2015 Come on, it doesn't matter if it's black or white 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) If you have that many players not willing to fight then there is a reason for that? How many teams over the years look not arsed and rubbish and then when a new guy takes over it a completely new dynamic? We even had it with o'neill initially. I agree we could get a short term boost by sacking Lambert. It might be necessary if things carry on the way they are. But we shouldn't expect to land a very good one with finances the way they are. We'd just end up with another manager whose popularity has a constant downward trajectory. The current manager is a calm head in a crisis. He is happy enough to be working in the current conditions. He is slowly improving the team. Sacking him would put is either in a slightly better position or a much, much worse one. I am struggling to come to terms with this comment. I think he's right but as everything it's not a 'black or white' situation. In his first season we spent a lot of time in the relegation zone and at the end of the season we fought our way out of there. Last season we spent most of the season mid-table, even though the style of football was worse. So far this season we've been around mid-tale most of the time, again with the football worse than his first, and if we avoid the sort of collapse that ruined last season we could still have our best season under Lambert. Of course we could drop down the table and be fighting to get out before the end of the season but it's by no means guaranteed. Over our dismal Christmas performances we were having shots but the majority were off target but these players have shown they're capable of scoring before and they have to start being more clinical again. Edited January 15, 2015 by Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you have that many players not willing to fight then there is a reason for that? How many teams over the years look not arsed and rubbish and then when a new guy takes over it a completely new dynamic? We even had it with o'neill initially. I agree we could get a short term boost by sacking Lambert. It might be necessary if things carry on the way they are. But we shouldn't expect to land a very good one with finances the way they are. We'd just end up with another manager whose popularity has a constant downward trajectory. The current manager is a calm head in a crisis. He is happy enough to be working in the current conditions. He is slowly improving the team. Sacking him would put is either in a slightly better position or a much, much worse one. I am struggling to come to terms with this comment. I think he's right but as everything it's not a 'black or white' situation. In his first season we spent a lot of time in the relegation zone and at the end of the season we fought our way out of there. Last season we spent most of the season mid-table, even though the style of football was worse. So far this season we've been around mid-tale most of the time, again with the football worse than his first, and if we avoid the sort of collapse that ruined last season we could still have our best season under Lambert. Of course we could drop down the table and be fighting to get out before the end of the season but it's by no means guaranteed. Over our dismal Christmas performances we were having shots but the majority were off target but these players have shown they're capable of scoring before and they have to start being more clinical again. I think this is likely to occur before the end of February rather than the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you have that many players not willing to fight then there is a reason for that? How many teams over the years look not arsed and rubbish and then when a new guy takes over it a completely new dynamic? We even had it with o'neill initially. He is slowly improving the team. Disagree with this. The team is getting worse week in week out, he has broken almost every unwanted club record and will probably break a couple more before the season is out. He has no idea at all what he is doing, his young and hungry plan went of the window, he has now spent 5 minutes with pep guardiola and is implementing a new possesion based style with possibly one of the most technically ungifted squads in the league and he still makes the most ridiculous substitutions during games. Nothing is improving, we are worse now than we were under McLeish despite having a better squad. Lambert must wake up every morning in disbelief that he is still in charge of a premier league team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The vast majority of stats and what I watch each week tells me he's not improving the team at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just watched his presser for Liverpool. He looks beleaguered and lacking in confidence. I hope he shows a different face to the team before Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just watched his presser for Liverpool. He looks beleaguered and lacking in confidence. I hope he shows a different face to the team before Saturday. To be fair to him he's only human. He knows how bad things are and now there's pressure from the fans and media. Its going to take its toll on anyone. For me this is another reason why we just need a fresh approach to make sure we survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just watched his presser for Liverpool. He looks beleaguered and lacking in confidence. I hope he shows a different face to the team before Saturday. I hope Mr Fox shows a different face to the team before Saturday - a new manager's face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Come on, it doesn't matter if it's black or white It does if you are a Minstrel (for the oldies on here!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think it was partly hearing about the protest as well - he didn't know about it until he was told during the presser and he is clearly worried about the effect on the team, even though it's focused on Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just watched his presser for Liverpool. He looks beleaguered and lacking in confidence. I hope he shows a different face to the team before Saturday. He has looked like that for a long time, thats why he needs to go. It cant be good for the team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Andy Gray suggesting Lambert's laid back style has rubbed off on the team in a negative way, hard to argue against that. I think Lambert brought in Keane to act as a counter balance to that, but whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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