Paul Lambert

[Stevo985]

 

Nobody enjoys the football at the moment.

 

The tone Mantis used might not be the best, but he's right. Of course nobody is enjoying the football (on the most part) we're playing at the moment. People who want Lambert to stay aren't forming their opinion based on the entertainment value of our current football.

 

 

 

What is it then? His baby blue eyes? His Hairy Hands? His sunny disposition?

 

 

You will have to ask them.

 

But there's more to football than how nice it is to watch.

Unfortunately we're not really offering the other attributes at the moment either.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Stevo985

[markavfc40]

As someone who desperately wanted Lambert and backed him heavily until the back end of last season I think the question I had to ask myself was how bad would things have to get before I changed my opinion and thought a change was necessary. That point of I don’t want it to get any worse than this came for me at the end of last season I guess.

 

However I have to say when it became clear over the summer that he was staying, added to him improving the squad both in terms of signings and the reintroduction of Hutton, NZogbia, Bent and Given, giving us the experience we clearly lacked and the good start we had to the season, gave me some renewed hope that my original feeling on Lambert may yet be proved right.

 

I think the fact we had a relatively positive summer and a good start now make the fact we have dipped so alarmingly even worse. If Lambert hasn't been able to feed of that positivity, and he clearly hasn't given our results and dire performances, then that to me shows another flaw in his managerial qualities.

 

Not one fan I know expects anything exceptional from Lambert and expectations are to me now at an all-time low. I have certainly lowered mine but for me given this squad, which I think is the best we have had in  3–4 years, and a manager that has been in place 2 and a half years then I believe a realistic expectation would be for us to stay out of any threat of relegation and play some half decent football along the way.

 

Despite mitigating circumstances in terms of not being blessed with the greatest of funds what I can’t accept is yet another long run of poor results, dire performances and a total lack of direction in terms of how we set up and try to play. We have absolutely no idea what we are doing when we have the ball. It is 3 or 4 sideways passes, lack of movement up top, back to a centre back or Guzan then a long punt up front and a gift of possession back to the opposition. This has been pretty much the pattern for all but the early part of Lambert's reign when we were a little more gung ho. Our style of play could maybe be forgiven if we were talking about a manager that had been in place for a few months but this is a guy that has had 2 and a half years which should be sufficient time to at least implement some kind of organisation and direction to our play. We are though no further forward in terms of how we play than the day he arrived.

 

Progress has been made in terms of signings and full credit to Lambert for that because given what he has had to spend he has assembled a decent squad. However that sadly becomes pretty much redundant because he is failing to get the best out of them.

 

I again now ask myself the question how much worse would it have to get before wanting a change in manager and the only thing worse than dire performances and battling against relegation is dire performances culminating in relegation itself. If we wait until that point then it is too late so now is the time for a change.

Edited November 11, 2014 by markavfc40

[lapal_fan]

If we suddenly started playing attractive football, one touch, down the wings, or the middle, scored some absolute beauties - we'd still be pissed off we'd conceded 6 goals.

 

There's always something to moan about, check out the forums when we finished 4 points from 4th one year.

 

At the minute the best thing is for the season to finish, we're still in the league and some headscarf wearing sugar daddy gives us 10 trillion pounds to spend on the first team.

 

And I guarantee, we'd still find something to moan about

Edited November 11, 2014 by lapal_fan

[Dodgyknees]

As someone who desperately wanted Lambert and backed him heavily until the back end of last season I think the question I had to ask myself was how bad would things have to get before I changed my opinion and thought a change was necessary. That point of I don’t want it to get any worse than this came for me at the end of last season I guess.

However I have to say when it became clear over the summer that he was staying, added to him improving the squad both in terms of signings and the reintroduction of Hutton, NZogbia, Bent and Given, giving us the experience we clearly lacked and the good start we had to the season, gave me some renewed hope that my original feeling on Lambert may yet be proved right.

I think the fact we had a relatively positive summer and a good start now make the fact we have dipped so alarmingly even worse. If Lambert hasn't been able to feed of that positivity, and he clearly hasn't given our results and dire performances, then that to me shows another flaw in his managerial qualities.

Not one fan I know expects anything exceptional from Lambert and expectations are to me now at an all-time low. I have certainly lowered mine but for me given this squad, which I think is the best we have had in 3–4 years, and a manager that has been in place 2 and a half years then I believe a realistic expectation would be for us to stay out of any threat of relegation and play some half decent football along the way.

Despite mitigating circumstances in terms of not being blessed with the greatest of funds what I can’t accept is yet another long run of poor results, dire performances and a total lack of direction in terms of how we set up and try to play. We have absolutely no idea what we are doing when we have the ball. It is 3 or 4 sideways passes, lack of movement up top, back to a centre back or Guzan then a long punt up front and a gift of possession back to the opposition. This has been pretty much the pattern for all but the early part of Lambert's reign when we were a little more gung ho. Our style of play could maybe be forgiven if we were talking about a manager that had been in place for a few months but this is a guy that has had 2 and a half years which should be sufficient time to at least implement some kind of organisation and direction to our play. We are though no further forward in terms of how we play than the day he arrived.

Progress has been made in terms of signings and full credit for Lambert for that because given what he has had to spend he has assembled a decent squad. However that sadly becomes pretty much redundant because he is failing to get the best out of them.

I again now ask myself the question how much worse would it have to get before wanting a change in manager and the only thing worse than dire performances and battling against relegation is dire performances culminating in relegation itself. If we wait until that point then it is too late so now is the time for a change.

Great post, once again.

[DelboyVilla]

Briiliant, well balanced post Mark.

 

What a shame all this falls on our owners rather distant deaf ears?

[lapal_fan]

Briiliant, well balanced post Mark.

 

What a shame all this falls on our owners rather distant deaf ears?

 

I don't think Randy has read that post to be honest.

[foreveryoung]

If we suddenly started playing attractive football, one touch, down the wings, or the middle, scored some absolute beauties - we'd still be pissed off we'd conceded 6 goals.

 

There's always something to moan about, check out the forums when we finished 4 points from 4th one year.

 

At the minute the best thing is for the season to finish, we're still in the league and some headscarf wearing sugar daddy gives us 10 trillion pounds to spend on the first team.

 

And I guarantee, we'd still find something to moan about

These posts are annoying, like its all us fans making something out of nothing.

If we lose against Burnley in a couple of weeks, im just waiting for the 'pro Lambert' excuses.

Personally I cannot find any excuse to keep him here!

[HeyAnty]

 

If we suddenly started playing attractive football, one touch, down the wings, or the middle, scored some absolute beauties - we'd still be pissed off we'd conceded 6 goals.

 

There's always something to moan about, check out the forums when we finished 4 points from 4th one year.

 

At the minute the best thing is for the season to finish, we're still in the league and some headscarf wearing sugar daddy gives us 10 trillion pounds to spend on the first team.

 

And I guarantee, we'd still find something to moan about

These posts are annoying, like its all us fans making something out of nothing.

If we lose against Burnley in a couple of weeks, im just waiting for the 'pro Lambert' excuses.

Personally I cannot find any excuse to keep him here!

 

 

'If we lose against Burnley in a couple of weeks'

 

Look who is making something out of nothing with this comment.  Id suggest waiting to it happens.

[darrenm]

I've always been very supportive of any manager we've had at Villa up until the point where I don't believe they're capable of improving us further. With Lambert I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right the way up until very recently, but a combination of things have changed that for me. I believe that the only way to really know if you think a manager is up to the task is to ask a series of questions, answered totally impartially and then see what side of the fence you really lie on. For me, regarding Lambert, that has been (answers all IMO of course):

Are results good enough? No

Are performances good enough? No

Do we look like scoring enough goals? No

Are we at least entertaining? No

Has the manager done well in the transfer market with the resources available? Yes

Is our squad stronger than it was when he inherited it? Yes

Is he getting the most out of the players? No

Do our tactics point at a long term game plan with improvement likely? No

Have there been mitigating circumstances for the manager to work under? Yes

Taking those mitigating circumstances into consideration, has the manager been performing a satisfactory job overall in terms of results, performances, future potential under his guidance and signings? Overall, no.

 

For me, those nos are too numerous to ignore any more unfortunately. They can definitely be turned around though, I'm a firm believer that everything can be turned around - but if you keep doing the same things over and over again, it just shows you're probably incapable of doing so

 

My answers to those questions

 

Are results good enough? No

Are performances good enough? Don't care. What's a performance?

Do we look like scoring enough goals? Sometimes

Are we at least entertaining? Don't care. What's entertaining?

Has the manager done well in the transfer market with the resources available? Yes

Is our squad stronger than it was when he inherited it? Yes

Is he getting the most out of the players? Maybe. Debatable

Do our tactics point at a long term game plan with improvement likely? Yes

Have there been mitigating circumstances for the manager to work under? Yes

Taking those mitigating circumstances into consideration, has the manager been performing a satisfactory job overall in terms of results, performances, future potential under his guidance and signings? Yes

[Mantis]

At the end of the day, if there are people who still believe in the manager, or want to give him till January - I am fine with that. Just because I feel Lambert cannot take us any further, or improve on what he has done, it doesn't mean what I am saying is more important than (for exame) Richard, Mantis or others. I just see things differently. I'm dying for us to turn a corner, I hate failing, I hate losing. I want Richard to be right!

 

Just out of curiosity, why did you use me as an example? Richard I understand because he's been quite supportive of Lambert (I don't agree with a lot of what he's said but he's at least put it across in a civil manner) but I haven't been that supportive of Lambert for quite a while now. The only reason I don't want him out right now is because I think it would do more harm than good because I don't think we'd be able to attract anyone that good and I don't think the mid-season upheaval would be good for the club. Unless something dramatically changes then he's got to go in the summer.

 

Even then though, if we lose our next 3 games I'll probably want him gone immediately just to try and arrest the slide.

 

Nobody enjoys the football at the moment.

 

The tone Mantis used might not be the best, but he's right. Of course nobody is enjoying the football (on the most part) we're playing at the moment. People who want Lambert to stay aren't forming their opinion based on the entertainment value of our current football.

Pretty much. I don't think the question is a good one because the few that are supportive of Lambert have given their reasons for that and to my knowledge none of them have cited enjoyment of the football as a reason for keeping him. The question just seemed completely redundant at best.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Mantis

[bobzy]

All this debate is pointless unless Lerner sells up. If Lambert keeps us up again he has fulfilled his one and only target for our owner, no matter what our new chief exec says.

 

The club is not going to be proactive in getting a talented coach in such as a Eddie Howe or a Mark Warburton, as we are in total inertia, and will be so until we are sold.

 

Funny, that last bit - this is exactly the position that Lambert was in.  A young, talented coach that had overseen successive promotions with Norwich.  But that's not who the club would go for?

 

(As an aside, Eddie Howe did wonders at Bournemouth, left to go to Burnley, failed, and subsequently went back to Bournemouth.  You'd want him, though?)

[Dodgyknees]

 

At the end of the day, if there are people who still believe in the manager, or want to give him till January - I am fine with that. Just because I feel Lambert cannot take us any further, or improve on what he has done, it doesn't mean what I am saying is more important than (for exame) Richard, Mantis or others. I just see things differently. I'm dying for us to turn a corner, I hate failing, I hate losing. I want Richard to be right!

 

Just out of curiosity, why did you use me as an example? Richard I understand because he's been quite supportive of Lambert (I don't agree with a lot of what he's said but he's at least put it across in a civil manner) but I haven't been that supportive of Lambert for quite a while now. The only reason I don't want him out right now is because I think it would do more harm than good because I don't think we'd be able to attract anyone that good and I don't think the mid-season upheaval would be good for the club. Unless something dramatically changes then he's got to go in the summer.

 

Even then though, if we lose our next 3 games I'll probably want him gone immediately just to try and arrest the slide.

 

Nobody enjoys the football at the moment.

 

The tone Mantis used might not be the best, but he's right. Of course nobody is enjoying the football (on the most part) we're playing at the moment. People who want Lambert to stay aren't forming their opinion based on the entertainment value of our current football.

Pretty much. I don't think the question is a good one because the few that are supportive of Lambert have given their reasons for that and to my knowledge none of them have cited enjoyment of the football as a reason for keeping him. The question just seemed completely redundant at best.

 

 

You said you wanted to give him time (I think... my head doesn't store too much from here). I was on my phone, on a boat which was making people puke, the smell was horrific, and also, I couldn't think how to spell bunnskie (!...?).

 

But now I can think of other names too.

[Stevo985]

Giving him time and wanting him to stay are two different things.

 

I'm happy to give him to christmas. Maybe that's pointless, maybe it isn't but that's my view. It's certainly not the enjoyment of his football that gives me that opinion.

 

But I'd distinguish that from "wanting him to stay". If he got sacked tomorrow I wouldn't be fussed, and part of me would be excited to have a new manager.

[P3te]

 

Are performances good enough? Don't care. What's a performance?

Do we look like scoring enough goals? Sometimes

Are we at least entertaining? Don't care. What's entertaining?

Do our tactics point at a long term game plan with improvement likely? Yes

 

Re the what's a performance and what's entertaining - if you're a football fan and you genuinely don't know the answer to those questions, I don't know what to tell you

 

Re: looking like scoring enough goals sometimes... when exactly?

 

And re: tactics making it look likely that we'll improve, what are you seeing there exactly? I'm curious about that one, because I'm just seeing the same panicky stuff from the manager over and over. There was a period, a while ago, where we got the ball on the floor for a good bit of every game, but the old reliable lack of movement pretty much killed any usefulness there time and again sadly

[useless]

For all we know there could be people registering serious interest in buying the club, with the possibilty of being sold within the next six to nine months (or however long these things take).

 

In those circumstances Randy's going to avoid sacking Lambert at all costs, I can only see something happening if we fall into the relegation zone and look in serious danger of not climbing out.  In fact if Lambert handn't have signed his new contract yet and you gave the club the chance of offering him a contract or recruiting a new manager they'd still offer him a new contract.

[ThunderPower_14]

 

My answers to those questions

 

Are results good enough? No

Are performances good enough? Don't care. What's a performance?

Do we look like scoring enough goals? Sometimes

Are we at least entertaining? Don't care. What's entertaining?

Has the manager done well in the transfer market with the resources available? Yes

Is our squad stronger than it was when he inherited it? Yes

Is he getting the most out of the players? Maybe. Debatable

Do our tactics point at a long term game plan with improvement likely? Yes

Have there been mitigating circumstances for the manager to work under? Yes

Taking those mitigating circumstances into consideration, has the manager been performing a satisfactory job overall in terms of results, performances, future potential under his guidance and signings? Yes

 

 

Can you expand a bit on the bolded please?

 

Can you explain how our tactics work in relation to long term planning and where improvement is coming from?

 

Performance is quite simply how competitive we are. If you watched our games but didn't see the score and left the room for each goal, what would your guess be as to the result? I know ultimately goals are goals and points are points and it doesn't really matter how you get them, but playing good football is ultimately more likely to get us points and goals. Sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring that is fine I guess if we've got a longball anti-football manager who's only job is to keep us up, but that's not where we are as a club and that's not the sort of manager Lambert is supposed to be.

[lapal_fan]

 

If we suddenly started playing attractive football, one touch, down the wings, or the middle, scored some absolute beauties - we'd still be pissed off we'd conceded 6 goals.

 

There's always something to moan about, check out the forums when we finished 4 points from 4th one year.

 

At the minute the best thing is for the season to finish, we're still in the league and some headscarf wearing sugar daddy gives us 10 trillion pounds to spend on the first team.

 

And I guarantee, we'd still find something to moan about

These posts are annoying, like its all us fans making something out of nothing.

If we lose against Burnley in a couple of weeks, im just waiting for the 'pro Lambert' excuses.

Personally I cannot find any excuse to keep him here!

 

 

Posts like that are annoying.

[Condimentalist]

As someone who desperately wanted Lambert and backed him heavily until the back end of last season I think the question I had to ask myself was how bad would things have to get before I changed my opinion and thought a change was necessary. That point of I don’t want it to get any worse than this came for me at the end of last season I guess.

 

However I have to say when it became clear over the summer that he was staying, added to him improving the squad both in terms of signings and the reintroduction of Hutton, NZogbia, Bent and Given, giving us the experience we clearly lacked and the good start we had to the season, gave me some renewed hope that my original feeling on Lambert may yet be proved right.

 

I think the fact we had a relatively positive summer and a good start now make the fact we have dipped so alarmingly even worse. If Lambert hasn't been able to feed of that positivity, and he clearly hasn't given our results and dire performances, then that to me shows another flaw in his managerial qualities.

 

Not one fan I know expects anything exceptional from Lambert and expectations are to me now at an all-time low. I have certainly lowered mine but for me given this squad, which I think is the best we have had in  3–4 years, and a manager that has been in place 2 and a half years then I believe a realistic expectation would be for us to stay out of any threat of relegation and play some half decent football along the way.

 

Despite mitigating circumstances in terms of not being blessed with the greatest of funds what I can’t accept is yet another long run of poor results, dire performances and a total lack of direction in terms of how we set up and try to play. We have absolutely no idea what we are doing when we have the ball. It is 3 or 4 sideways passes, lack of movement up top, back to a centre back or Guzan then a long punt up front and a gift of possession back to the opposition. This has been pretty much the pattern for all but the early part of Lambert's reign when we were a little more gung ho. Our style of play could maybe be forgiven if we were talking about a manager that had been in place for a few months but this is a guy that has had 2 and a half years which should be sufficient time to at least implement some kind of organisation and direction to our play. We are though no further forward in terms of how we play than the day he arrived.

 

Progress has been made in terms of signings and full credit to Lambert for that because given what he has had to spend he has assembled a decent squad. However that sadly becomes pretty much redundant because he is failing to get the best out of them.

 

I again now ask myself the question how much worse would it have to get before wanting a change in manager and the only thing worse than dire performances and battling against relegation is dire performances culminating in relegation itself. If we wait until that point then it is too late so now is the time for a change.

 

Good post Mark. I agree with much of it, but not all of it.

 

Specifically, yes we've had a terrible run of results, but you have to look at who we've played. It's not only that we've faced them, but that it's been back-to-back. It's very hard to maintain energy levels, both physical and mental, for so many games like that on the trot - let alone all important confidence. Everton and QPR have been the major disappointments for me, Liverpool obviously the big plus.

 

However, given that we have some decent games now through to the new year, surely you're willing to see if we really have improved by giving Lambert a chance to go and win some of these fixtures? I agree with you that our squad is OK now (and that Lambert has done well to assemble it on a small budget). Of course there is concomitant pressure associated with that. Performances and results have to improve now. If we are still in 15th/16th or below at the turn of the year, I'll be calling for the mangers head too. But surely he deserves that chance?

[KHV]

I think its time to replace Lambert, things need freshening up its all rather stale. As others have stated he has had 2.5 years now and it certainly hasnt got any better. I think we should be playing better with the squad we have got to be honest, some of the crap Lambert has served up during his tenure is the worst I have witnessed since the mid 80's and McLeish. I was not keen on his appointment but I did expect him to be a big improvement on McLeish, sadly he hasnt been and that is saying something.

[DCJonah]

But surely he deserves that chance

Our results and performances over the last 12 months would suggest he doesn't.

Why do you think surely he deserves the chance? Our awful form has been going on a lot longer than just the last 7 games. I haven't seen anything that makes me think yes this man deserves a chance.