CrackpotForeigner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally, I'd only compare average points/goals etc. after we've played each team once. At the moment, our fixtures have been completely skewed towards playing the better teams in the league. As things stand, we've taken 3 points from a possible 18 against the top 6 last season and 8 from a possible 15 against the rest of the league. If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. The problem is the football being played - and definitely in an attacking sense. We look toothless and like we don't really know how to open up defences. Even with that, we've done "well" against the teams in the league that we should look to be beating, rather than relying on unexpected results against the big teams. We've even kept 4 clean sheets out of a possible 11 - which isn't bad. The substance of what we do with the ball needs to improve dramatically, in short. The results in themselves aren't too bad. Well said. It IS possible to recognise that we're toothless and unentertaining and still believe we're doing okay and will improve. So much depends on Benteke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally, I'd only compare average points/goals etc. after we've played each team once. At the moment, our fixtures have been completely skewed towards playing the better teams in the league. As things stand, we've taken 3 points from a possible 18 against the top 6 last season and 8 from a possible 15 against the rest of the league. If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. So you counsel against comparing average points etc. at this stage in the season, then go on to construct some very detailed averages, and even use them to gross up to a final points total and hint at a finishing position! I think that qualifies for a briny_ear dodgy statistics award. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Pretty much an "expected" return from the games in my opinion. I expected progress from an awful season last year. We're averaging the same points per game and scoring less. Its not what I expected. He means results-wise though.Of the 5 teams outside last years' top 6 we have faced, we have lost only one of them and picked up 8 points. For where we finished, and how we did in similar situations last season, I'd say that's an improvement. I think the big problem this year though is that the "top 6" teams that we expected to get beat against has turned into the top 8 or 9? I mean, Southampton and Swansea are now teams added to that list who will beat us. The teams who are struggling in last seasons top 6, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton have all beat us too. When you setup to not lose 16-18 games in a 38 game season, but end up losing them anyway it puts a huge amount of pressure on the other games. I wish we were a bit more adventurous against the better teams, so what we might get beat badly? Who cares? If you don't have a go you dont win games. We should take the view of playing better teams as a free hit, if we lose it's expected, but at least try and win the game. Lambert this season more than any other has set us up similar to McLeish, we play to try and not lose rather than to win. It's not acceptable in my view. I completely agree. The odd thing is, Lambert did apply this approach during his first season, in that he didn't care who the opposition were and tried to win (even embarrassingly 5-0 to Chelsea, where damage limitation probably would have been more pragmatic). He seems too over-cautious now, and doesn't want to get his hands burnt again. I think he needs to find a middle ground personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally, I'd only compare average points/goals etc. after we've played each team once. At the moment, our fixtures have been completely skewed towards playing the better teams in the league. As things stand, we've taken 3 points from a possible 18 against the top 6 last season and 8 from a possible 15 against the rest of the league. If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. So you counsel against comparing average points etc. at this stage in the season, then go on to construct some very detailed averages, and even use them to gross up to a final points total and hint at a finishing position! I think that qualifies for a briny_ear dodgy statistics award. So the emboldened, italic "if" wasn't quite enough to suggest that it's a hypothetical situation, rather than a factual, statistical basis saying "we are improving" - noted for future posting FWIW, I'd say the same if we'd played none of the top 6 at this stage; this isn't a pro-Lambert thing. Just that, taken in context, our results aren't that bad - but our attacking football most definitely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think the big problem this year though is that the "top 6" teams that we expected to get beat against has turned into the top 8 or 9? I mean, Southampton and Swansea are now teams added to that list who will beat us. The teams who are struggling in last seasons top 6, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton have all beat us too. When you setup to not lose 16-18 games in a 38 game season, but end up losing them anyway it puts a huge amount of pressure on the other games. I wish we were a bit more adventurous against the better teams, so what we might get beat badly? Who cares? If you don't have a go you dont win games. We should take the view of playing better teams as a free hit, if we lose it's expected, but at least try and win the game. Lambert this season more than any other has set us up similar to McLeish, we play to try and not lose rather than to win. It's not acceptable in my view. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz316 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally, I'd only compare average points/goals etc. after we've played each team once. At the moment, our fixtures have been completely skewed towards playing the better teams in the league. As things stand, we've taken 3 points from a possible 18 against the top 6 last season and 8 from a possible 15 against the rest of the league. If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. So you counsel against comparing average points etc. at this stage in the season, then go on to construct some very detailed averages, and even use them to gross up to a final points total and hint at a finishing position! I think that qualifies for a briny_ear dodgy statistics award. So the emboldened, italic "if" wasn't quite enough to suggest that it's a hypothetical situation, rather than a factual, statistical basis saying "we are improving" - noted for future posting FWIW, I'd say the same if we'd played none of the top 6 at this stage; this isn't a pro-Lambert thing. Just that, taken in context, our results aren't that bad - but our attacking football most definitely is. Our results arent that bad we've only lost 6 of the last 7 and taken 1 point from a possible 21 but our points aren't that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Pretty much an "expected" return from the games in my opinion. I expected progress from an awful season last year. We're averaging the same points per game and scoring less. Its not what I expected. He means results-wise though.Of the 5 teams outside last years' top 6 we have faced, we have lost only one of them and picked up 8 points. For where we finished, and how we did in similar situations last season, I'd say that's an improvement. I think the big problem this year though is that the "top 6" teams that we expected to get beat against has turned into the top 8 or 9? I mean, Southampton and Swansea are now teams added to that list who will beat us. The teams who are struggling in last seasons top 6, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton have all beat us too. When you setup to not lose 16-18 games in a 38 game season, but end up losing them anyway it puts a huge amount of pressure on the other games. I wish we were a bit more adventurous against the better teams, so what we might get beat badly? Who cares? If you don't have a go you dont win games. We should take the view of playing better teams as a free hit, if we lose it's expected, but at least try and win the game. Lambert this season more than any other has set us up similar to McLeish, we play to try and not lose rather than to win. It's not acceptable in my view. So under the mismanagement by both Lerner and Lambert we are now cannon fodder for the likes of Swansea and Southampton. Lerner should take the lions share of the blame but Lambert has bought badly (how many left backs in 3 years) and cannot get the best out of the players at his disposal. We will not score 20 goals this season if he remains in charge and that will surely mean relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. An interesting idea but absolutely made up to create a scenario where 11 points and 5 goals is considered good. We average a point a game and funnily enough we did the same last year. I think we've taken 30 points out of the last available 105. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I can't beleive that after two and half years of dire football people are still clinging on to the faint hope that our current manager will come good based on four average performances at the start of the season and treat a draw at West Ham as some kind of major result? This guy is making me hate watching us and I couldn't even be bothered to watch more than the two minute 'highlights' of Saturdays game on SSN because I knew exactly what I would see! Our defenders scambling for a clean sheet against all opposition is not enjoyable to watch. He needs replacing ASAP with anything from a semi trained monkey upwards as it would be an improvement! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) McLeish MK 2 might be having his Bolton game the weekend I think the crowd could really turn Edited November 10, 2014 by AshVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 McLeish MK 2 might be having his Bolton game the weekend I think the crowd could really turn Can't wait. Never liked that word removed Hodgson anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. An interesting idea but absolutely made up to create a scenario where 11 points and 5 goals is considered good. We average a point a game and funnily enough we did the same last year. I think we've taken 30 points out of the last available 105. Interesting that you have decided to use the term "good" and, in DelboyVilla's case, saying a draw against West Ham is a "major result". Would you like to show me where either thing has been said at all? It's this sort of posting that makes the board so intolerable at times. Edited November 10, 2014 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alipali Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I expect Villa to drop into the relegation zone next week - where we belong - and stay there until the end of the season. Fire Lambert already. Enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan501 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) So if they are putting the effort in, the issue must be what the manager is telling them to do. Tactics.I think it's safe to say that tactically, players wise because we've experimented a lot with formations, Lambert is still struggling to get the best of/recognise individuals attributes and blend that with a tactic he thinks fits.Still struggling, with the same players after 2 an a half seasons is a little poor don't you think?? Totally and utterly unnaceptable and it wont change in the future so we should stop gambling with the future and remove lambert from his duties. Can anybody honestly say they think weve progressed because honestly i think weve got progressively WORSE. Edited November 10, 2014 by villan501 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I expect Villa to drop into the relegation zone next week - where we belong - and stay there until the end of the season. Fire Lambert already. Enough is enough. You can say enough is enough as much as you like. It doesn't make it so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If we were to continue in this manner, we'd hit 48 points this season. Last season, that would've been good enough for 11th place - the season before, good enough for 9th. We've had key injures this season (I know, who hasn't) and it also doesn't account for oddities like Man Utd finishing 7th etc but, purely in terms of results, we haven't actually done badly this season. I'd happily take 48 points and a 9th-11th finish in the table. An interesting idea but absolutely made up to create a scenario where 11 points and 5 goals is considered good. We average a point a game and funnily enough we did the same last year. I think we've taken 30 points out of the last available 105. Interesting that you have decided to use the term "good" and, in DelboyVilla's case, saying a draw against West Ham is a "major result". Would you like to show me where either thing has been said at all? It's this sort of posting that makes the board so intolerable at times. You're talking about form that will get us 48 points and between 9th - 11th. You don't consider that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Wake me up when it's fun again. This thread or the football we play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I expect Villa to drop into the relegation zone next week - where we belong - and stay there until the end of the season. Fire Lambert already. Enough is enough. If England playing Slovenia causes us to drop into the bottom 3 then Lambert should be tried for witchcraft , never mind being fired. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 McLeish MK 2 might be having his Bolton game the weekend I think the crowd could really turn Our next game is 2 weeks tonight ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I expect Villa to drop into the relegation zone next week - where we belong - and stay there until the end of the season. Fire Lambert already. Enough is enough. If England playing Slovenia causes us to drop into the bottom 3 then Lambert should be tried for witchcraft , never mind being fired. I blame Roy Keane. He's capable of anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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