The Careers/Jobs thread

[Sam-AVFC]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm looking for something else, as I'm moving in with my girlfriend in another city.

However, **** 3 month notice period. 3 whole months. Meaning if I don't find anything by end of september, I can't start anything until February.

Worried it'll be a big putoff for employers and it's delaying my plans too.

I've got a 3 month notice period too and handing my notice in Today. Thankfully the company who have offered me a job have no problem waiting as they've been looking for someone in this role for a couple of years. It does strike me as very restrictive at junior levels (which I am) though.

One benefit is 3 months gives me plenty of time to tie up a lot of lose ends and make sure I can leave on good terms in what is a very small industry.

Had a 4 day stag do in Benidorm over the weekend so had the worst beer fear ever Yesterday at the thought of speaking to my boss today!

[Sam-AVFC]

20 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Recruitment

Do you not consder recruitment sales? I know once you've built a reputation, solid client base and network it's a bit different, but early days I'd say it's very similar to desk-based sales jobs.

[choffer]

18 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Do you not consder recruitment sales? I know once you've built a reputation, solid client base and network it's a bit different, but early days I'd say it's very similar to desk-based sales jobs.

And the pay in recruitment is generally awful. Or rather it was when I almost went into it after Uni 25 years ago. I was offered a job with one of the big volume-shifting recruitment companies in London. They kept telling me I'd expect to earn £30k+ in my first year which would have been awesome as a 22 year old in the 90s but when they actually made the offer it was £6k per annum with the expectation I'd make the rest up in commission. 

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Do you not consder recruitment sales? I know once you've built a reputation, solid client base and network it's a bit different, but early days I'd say it's very similar to desk-based sales jobs.

Depends on what kind of recruitment - I work in-house and haven't even had to think about BD for about 6 years.

 

[bannedfromHandV]

49 minutes ago, choffer said:

And the pay in recruitment is generally awful. Or rather it was when I almost went into it after Uni 25 years ago. I was offered a job with one of the big volume-shifting recruitment companies in London. They kept telling me I'd expect to earn £30k+ in my first year which would have been awesome as a 22 year old in the 90s but when they actually made the offer it was £6k per annum with the expectation I'd make the rest up in commission. 

Depends on what you think constitutes awful.

I do not believe I am earning an awful pay, far from it in fact.

[choffer]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Depends on what you think constitutes awful.

I do not believe I am earning an awful pay, far from it in fact.

I was thinking more at entry level, which is what it'd be for Chindie.

It's probably moved on since my tale from days of yore but it it probably just stung me that I interviewed 7 times for a role thinking I was going to be earning a very decent amount of money when in fact, it was a pittance and almost entirely commission based. 

[Chindie]

I'd have to agree that recruitment always struck me as a sales job in a different suit.

I've never been a salesman. Sales is something I'm deeply uncomfortable with, I've never liked it and I've liked it being done to me either. I've been able to secure renewals and the like in my career, even placed some new stuff more than a few times, but that was never really selling, and usually I was getting the customer a better end of the deal than anyone on our side of it would have liked. In prior jobs I've had requirements to, for want of a better way of putting it, 'push' for clients to go for a particular option, and I've actively advised against it as I could see it was in the client's interest to not go for it.

[Sam-AVFC]

13 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Depends on what kind of recruitment - I work in-house and haven't even had to think about BD for about 6 years.

Fair enough, I imagine that's a much more enjoyable role.

I'm basing it mainly on one fried who joined Selby Jennings and really struggled with the nature of the beast there.

I'd also say in my experience I am much more happy to speak with inhouse recruiters as they are more willing to take no for an answer - funny what actually caring about a company reputation does!

Edit

On the subject of pay, apart from my one friend who was, by his own admission, terrible at it everyone I know who has lasted for a few years in recruitment has been at a minimum comfortable and some have made a fortune. So much so I was thinking of packing in my job as a chartered surveyor and working in property recruitment instead, but ended up deciding against it.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Sam-AVFC

[choffer]

6 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I'd have to agree that recruitment always struck me as a sales job in a different suit.

I've never been a salesman. Sales is something I'm deeply uncomfortable with, I've never liked it and I've liked it being done to me either. I've been able to secure renewals and the like in my career, even placed some new stuff more than a few times, but that was never really selling, and usually I was getting the customer a better end of the deal than anyone on our side of it would have liked. In prior jobs I've had requirements to, for want of a better way of putting it, 'push' for clients to go for a particular option, and I've actively advised against it as I could see it was in the client's interest to not go for it.

You’d be a salesman I’d do business with then. Not that you’d ever take such a job. 

[Sam-AVFC]

8 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I've been able to secure renewals and the like in my career, even placed some new stuff more than a few times, but that was never really selling, and usually I was getting the customer a better end of the deal than anyone on our side of it would have liked.

Maybe account management? My friend just moved off of their pure sales team at a software firm and is now doing account management and loving it. He says it's way more enjoyable to be dealing with people you build a relationship with and as existing customers you have a captive audience.

Are you Birmingham based?

[Chindie]

17 minutes ago, choffer said:

You’d be a salesman I’d do business with then. Not that you’d ever take such a job. 

Thanks. Thats genuinely a compliment.

Looking after my clients was something I always put ahead of anything else, and thats been the case for me even before I worked in an office - working in a shop I once told someone who was a bit clueless to ingore the up sell stuff at the counter, and lo and behold the bloke became a long term customer. in another prior job I was instructed to shift people to a product the business had an interest in, but could see for most customers it would be worse than the thing they had already (if slightly cheaper) so went to pains to avoid the recommendation. I'm sure higher salaries than mine didn't like it but I couldn't in good conscience screw over the client.

[Chindie]

18 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Maybe account management? My friend just moved off of their pure sales team at a software firm and is now doing account management and loving it. He says it's way more enjoyable to be dealing with people you build a relationship with and as existing customers you have a captive audience.

Are you Birmingham based?

Account management is kinda what I've done before. I looked after clients that had already been won, and helped out on the big stuff that had the executives assigned to them.

I am in Birmingham. Unfortunately I struggle to travel so that kinda limits my horizons.

[bannedfromHandV]

43 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I'd have to agree that recruitment always struck me as a sales job in a different suit.

I've never been a salesman. Sales is something I'm deeply uncomfortable with, I've never liked it and I've liked it being done to me either. I've been able to secure renewals and the like in my career, even placed some new stuff more than a few times, but that was never really selling, and usually I was getting the customer a better end of the deal than anyone on our side of it would have liked. In prior jobs I've had requirements to, for want of a better way of putting it, 'push' for clients to go for a particular option, and I've actively advised against it as I could see it was in the client's interest to not go for it.

It is and it isn't.

If you're doing BD then yes - it's sales, I get about 5 calls a day from various agencies around Europe who all seem to use the exact same pitch; "let me tell you about how we're different"  before then proceeding to say the exact same thing everyone says.

But on the other end of recruitment - delivery (i.e. actually filling vacancies) I've never seen it as sales, if you have to sell someone a role then they're not right for it - sure you have to explain it but that should be enough.

How hard is it to sell a job to someone looking for a job?

[choffer]

16 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Thanks. Thats genuinely a compliment.

Looking after my clients was something I always put ahead of anything else, and thats been the case for me even before I worked in an office - working in a shop I once told someone who was a bit clueless to ingore the up sell stuff at the counter, and lo and behold the bloke became a long term customer. in another prior job I was instructed to shift people to a product the business had an interest in, but could see for most customers it would be worse than the thing they had already (if slightly cheaper) so went to pains to avoid the recommendation. I'm sure higher salaries than mine didn't like it but I couldn't in good conscience screw over the client.

I tell all prospective suppliers of mine that we will build a long-lasting relationship if they provide me good information and the products I need. At the first sign that someone is trying it on, they get binned. I've never understood why so many companies chase a quick sale rather than trying to build a trusted relationship. Genuinely baffles me. 

[blandy]

On 04/09/2019 at 14:11, Chindie said:

I'm having to get on the job search game...

...the things I've enjoyed about my jobs has been the people I've worked with and the odd moment where you help a client and they are genuinely happy with what you've done.

But I dunno what else I can do. I know I'm not a salesman.

There's actually a lot to go on in a positive sense in your post.

As others have said, you're a bright bloke, and then you like and get on with people you work with, you enjoy helping customers. It sounds like a heck of a good starting point for an employer. Then on top of that there will be stuff that you've done/got a background in which is hugely transferable - you've demonstrated an ability to work with, understand, implement and follow procedures and protocols, to form informed judgements and then follow through on them. To communicate well with "the public". You've worked with mathematical and financial issues and handled that responsibility on a daily basis. You've reported upwards succinctly and clearly.

Not knowing which specific industry or line of work you'd like to follow in next isn't a big deal. It's the norm. "I'm used to this, but not sure I want to keep doing it, or what I'd want to do next" is probably the mindset of about 50% of the working, or seeking work, population.

I don't know you well enough from here to say "you'd make a great [job type]", but I do know you're one of "the smart ones". A smart person with people skills is an asset in a wide range of jobs.

[PieFacE]

On 03/08/2018 at 13:04, PieFacE said:

So has anyone has a complete change of career before and it's gone well? 

I've been working at the same company for 12/13 years now. It's all very easy going and i'm completely in my comfort zone. A job offer has come my way with a total shift in career but it's a career I think I'd find quite rewarding and in an emerging market which leaves plenty of room for growth.

Only issue is, as it's a total different career choice I guess i'm scared it won't work out, and I would have left a really easy going job. Interviews have taken place and I think they have gone well.

Anyone got any success stories from a similar situation? 

1 year on, best life decision I've ever made. Never be afraid to change things up would be my advice to everyone. Couldn't be happier right now.

[Tayls]

Been offered an IT role with the NHS. has anyone worked for the NHS before? What are the real benefits? What are the not so good stuff. Never worked in public sector before, so not overly sure on what I should expect. 

No idea what to do. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Tayls

[Chindie]

3 hours ago, Frobisher said:

Have you thought about writing? I've been reading your posts for years, and you're one of the most eloquent posters on here. You summarise complex topics with ease and you're clearly a deep thinker.

Something like Copify could be a good place to start. It's a marketplace for businesses that need copy. You have to apply to join, but I'm sure with your qualifications and skills you would breeze through. It's a convenient way of building up a bit of a portfolio and earning some money. It's how I got started in the industry.

I work in this field, so if you want any advice, you're always welcome to pm me.

I've never thought of writing as a job in all honesty, but I do enjoy it. I don't think I've ever thought of my writing as anything more than good, certainly not enough to get paid for it.

Thanks, appreciate the thoughts (and feedback, I guess!) - I'll look into Copify, I don't have much to lose giving it a go I guess.

Thanks again

[Chindie]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

There's actually a lot to go on in a positive sense in your post.

As others have said, you're a bright bloke, and then you like and get on with people you work with, you enjoy helping customers. It sounds like a heck of a good starting point for an employer. Then on top of that there will be stuff that you've done/got a background in which is hugely transferable - you've demonstrated an ability to work with, understand, implement and follow procedures and protocols, to form informed judgements and then follow through on them. To communicate well with "the public". You've worked with mathematical and financial issues and handled that responsibility on a daily basis. You've reported upwards succinctly and clearly.

Not knowing which specific industry or line of work you'd like to follow in next isn't a big deal. It's the norm. "I'm used to this, but not sure I want to keep doing it, or what I'd want to do next" is probably the mindset of about 50% of the working, or seeking work, population.

I don't know you well enough from here to say "you'd make a great [job type]", but I do know you're one of "the smart ones". A smart person with people skills is an asset in a wide range of jobs.

Thanks. I have been thinking that there's probably a fair few transferable skills from the work I've done so far. It's finding the angle I guess.

Unfortunately insurance is one of those industries that you kinda get sucked into and struggle to get back out of. I updated my CV the other day and made it visible again, literally within 10 minutes had recruiters dying for a chat about this account handler role and that broker... And the more the conversations went on the more I thought I actually would snap someone's hand off to do something else. Even if it's still in finance. With insurance I've done it for the better part of a decade but to this day don't feel 100% comfortable with it and I can't say I much enjoy it. Every day is fighting fires, unpicking messes, trying to squeeze things past people... And it's ultimately not very fulfilling.

[Seat68]

So erm out of the blue I have an interview midweek for a manager position considerably more closer to home. No harm no foul if I don't get it but on paper it is all ideal for me.