The History Thread

[maqroll]

Can't believe I'd never heard about this tragedy until today-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum

[JamieZ]

There's a new Dan Carlin episode up on the Achaemenid Persian Empire. That is all.

[The_Rev]

Link to the episode because, you know, netiquette and everything.  

 

Looking forward to listening because it's a part of history I know absolutely nothing about.  Always difficult to define what the 'greatest' empire is too, as a Brit I am all too aware that the British Empire is the largest empire the world has ever seen in terms of size (sun never sets etc) and the Mongol Empire was the largest contiguous empire which is a hell of an achievement, especially considering how quickly they established and the Roman Empire had such an impact on the world we know today to the point where I'm typing this message in their alphabet and London is the capital city of this country because the Romans said it was but the Persian empire is something I know little about beyond them being the 'bad' guys in 300 and that their empire controlled a larger percentage of the known world's population than any other had before or since and probably ever will. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by The_Rev

[tonyh29]

Link to the episode because, you know, netiquette and everything.  

 

Looking forward to listening because it's a part of history I know absolutely nothing about.  Always difficult to define what the 'greatest' empire is too, as a Brit I am all too aware that the British Empire is the largest empire the world has ever seen in terms of size (sun never sets etc) and the Mongol Empire was the largest contiguous empire which is a hell of an achievement, especially considering how quickly they established and the Roman Empire had such an impact on the world we know today to the point where I'm typing this message in their alphabet and London is the capital city of this country because the Romans said it was but the Persian empire is something I know little about beyond them being the 'bad' guys in 300 and that their empire controlled a larger percentage of the known world's population than any other had before or since and probably ever will. 

 

The Mongolian empire could have been a whole lot bigger if they hadn't engaged in civil war against themselves upon the death of Kublai  and also engaged in the practise of sending the army home on the death of the leader   .. it certainly saved Russia and Europe .

The Mongols even had a go at Java (as was known back then ) .. They won a few victories and then got done by an ambush and  they failed ultimately as they had to sail home or risk being stranded there for 6 months .. but it's a defeat they clutched from the jaws of victory  , otherwise I think that would have given them title of biggest Empire ever seen ?

isn't the rumour that 1 in 200 people alive today can trace themselves back to Ghengis Khan  ?

I was fortunate enough to visit Persepolis last year , it shows a side of the Persian Empire other than them being the bad guys ... Persepolis  itself was built with paid workers (on sick pay and holiday pay so the guide reckons !)  rather than the traditional view of slaves in chains ... but not just Persia a visit to various cities in India will also show you just how advanced the Persian empire was  , Jantar Mantar for example

 

I'd argue the British Empire was the best  ..but I know that's not a popular view and we are supposed to apologise for being British instead ....

[The_Rev]

If you've not listened to the Dan Carlin series about the Mongol Empire then I'd highly recommend it, it's fantastic.  Really enjoyed the Persian episode too, it's not really what I'd assumed it would be as the first episode (3.5 hours) spends most of it's time just explaining the state of the near east as it was five or six hundred years BCE,  Cyrus the Great doesn't get as much air time as he probably deserves (Carlin cites lack of sources) but it's all stuff I wasn't exactly familiar with and I enjoyed it.  I think the series will probably get even more interesting as he moves forward into Alexander the Great and the Greek civilisations. 

[El Zen]

The Wrath of the Khans is maybe my favourite Dan Carlin series. Kings of Kings, from the first episode, has a similar feel to it. Both are parts of history I didn't know very much about but have turned out to be every bit as interesting as, say, Greek or Roman history. And, man, Dan Carlin really knows how to tell a good story. 

[Chindie]

I did a rerun recently of some of his older series and found then as enjoyable as ever. I was never a great lover of Roman history but listened to the Fall of the Roman Republic again and loved it. The man is brilliant at what he does, fascinating and detailed but engrossing and engaging with it.

Strangely my favourite of his though is Prophets of Doom. It's a weird little one off compared to his epic series, and he personally dislikes it, but I find is a story with everything - a little known tale in the English speaking world, its funny, gruesome, shocking, riddled with sex, opens your eyes to areas of faith and religion you just don't consider... It's brilliant. The concept of 'a walkie talkie to God' still makes me snigger every time.

The new series has started very well and again is an area of history I'm not that familiar with but Carlin guides you through it as expertly as ever.

[El Zen]

How can you not be a fan of Roman history? I mean...it's Roman history! War, politics and sex - if it had football, it would have everything I'd ever need. 

[The_Rev]

It's probably how they teach it at schools. You don't get told any of the juicy stuff, instead it's all "look at this Roman coin somebody found in a field, oooh, and here's a bit of broken Roman pottery." 

[coda]

If ya like the Romans try Robert Graves' books.

[chrisp65]

my brother found some bits of pottery that resulted in the map of where the romans got to and when being redrawn

that's my claim to fame, top it if you can

[PongRiddims]

My favourite bit of history was when we were winning, but now America is winning and it's not such fun these days.

[mjmooney]

If ya like the Romans try Robert Graves' books.

I read Graves' WWI memoir 'Goodbye to All That', and thought it was one of the best books I'd ever read - so I couldn't wait to get stuck in to 'I, Claudius'.

I hated it, found it all but unreadable, and gave up.

[AVFC_Hitz]

Try I, clavdivs instead. Much better book.

[MakemineVanilla]

If ya like the Romans try Robert Graves' books.

 

I read Graves' WWI memoir 'Goodbye to All That', and thought it was one of the best books I'd ever read - so I couldn't wait to get stuck in to 'I, Claudius'.

 

I hated it, found it all but unreadable, and gave up.

The only thing I can remember from that, except the vague memory that it was very good, was that he got shot in the leg while he was running and it missed his family jewels by the closest margin, which he was much relieved about, as you would.

[coda]

If ya like the Romans try Robert Graves' books.

 

I read Graves' WWI memoir 'Goodbye to All That', and thought it was one of the best books I'd ever read - so I couldn't wait to get stuck in to 'I, Claudius'.

 

I hated it, found it all but unreadable, and gave up.

I read them a long time ago but I think I was expecting some dry academic tomes, due to their age. The fact they were so exciting, filled with murder and insanity, made them easy to read.

[mjmooney]

If ya like the Romans try Robert Graves' books. 

I read Graves' WWI memoir 'Goodbye to All That', and thought it was one of the best books I'd ever read - so I couldn't wait to get stuck in to 'I, Claudius'.

 

I hated it, found it all but unreadable, and gave up.

I read them a long time ago but I think I was expecting some dry academic tomes, due to their age. The fact they were so exciting, filled with murder and insanity, made them easy to read.

Try Lewis Grassic Gibbon's "Spartacus". I thought it would be a bit restrained, being written in the 1930s, but it's as brutally violent as a Cormac McCarthy.

[JamieZ]

My favourite bit of history was when we were winning, but now America is winning and it's not such fun these days.

I think history will look back at the early 21st century as "when America stopped winning". And it has absolutely nothing to do with our current president.

[villa4europe]

I dunno you could look at a whole lot of 20th century history and question American "winning"

That Oliver stone series that sky did, untold history of the U.S. or something, and he did a book, was quite good, questioned their role in WW2, very much questions Hiroshima and why the Japanese surrendered, then on to Kennedy, Nixon, Vietnam Cold War etc

I find Americas obsession with enemies, to where they almost picture them as boogie men, really interesting, it was one of the best aspects of narcos, obsessed with communists, obsessed with Middle eastern terrorists, it's like it keeps them ticking, they need it in their lives

[mjmooney]

I dunno you could look at a whole lot of 20th century history and question American "winning"

That Oliver stone series that sky did, untold history of the U.S. or something, and he did a book, was quite good, questioned their role in WW2, very much questions Hiroshima and why the Japanese surrendered, then on to Kennedy, Nixon, Vietnam Cold War etc

I find Americas obsession with enemies, to where they almost picture them as boogie men, really interesting, it was one of the best aspects of narcos, obsessed with communists, obsessed with Middle eastern terrorists, it's like it keeps them ticking, they need it in their lives

I think it's a lot to do with the origins of the nation - settled by persecuted minorities from the old world, mixed with adventurers and opportunists. This song nails it (ignore the hilariously wrong subtitles):