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The History Thread


maqroll

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12 minutes ago, maqroll said:

I think "reparations" is a bit of a hot button term that obscures the kind of basic measures that could've been taken to address the needs of former slaves who suddenly had to craft a functional government out of the ruins of 400 years of total exploitation. As a Commonwealth nation, Jamaica, in my opinion, should have received much more guidance, investment and true partnership than what was offered after 1962 or whenever they achieved independence. The fruits of the British Empire were channeled straight back to England, and Jamaica was not immune to this scheme. It's wealth ultimately never benefitted the Jamaican people, but rather the financiers and industry moguls back in England. Had Britain invested more basic good will and support for it's former gold mine, Jamaica would be in a much better situation than it is now. 

I guess we're talking about different things. I'm not really disputing the history (I don't know enough to speak knowledgeably on the topic), and I'm certainly not disputing the morality. I'm talking about the path forward from now (which is maybe off-topic for the history thread, so I'll leave it there). 

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20 minutes ago, Awol said:

Decolonization is a process that should have taken 40-50 yrs following World War II, enabling the phased standing up of local institutions of governance and professionalised local civil services. Had we been able to do that then much of the former Empire might look more like Australia than Zimbabwe. 

Sadly Washington insisted that the UK GTFO of those countries as rapidly as possible, partly so they could move in behind us and partly to ensure a vastly reduced global role for the UK itself. 

 Let's face it, absent Pearl Harbour America would have happily let Britain shoulder the burden of facing the Nazis alone, while emptying our Treasury to pay for the arms our own incinerated factories could not - which it did, completely.

So when Americans bang on about the ills of decolonization the only suitable reply is a two fingered salute at the sheer f'ing neck & hypocrisy of it. 

Passing the buck is too easy...if you want, we can talk about all the horrible injustices perpetrated by the USA, including its involvement in Caribbean political affairs, but just accept the plain facts that Britain's involvement is just as egregious if not more so when viewed in an historical context. 

 

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I've been obsessing about the collapse of Yugoslavia and the wars there. It is chilling. There are tons of good videos on YT about it all. I'm reading a great book as well, it explains everything in very clear terms, and you're able to make some sense out of a very confusing situation. Those Serbs were total psychopaths.

Anyone have some good book recommendations on this subject?

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25 minutes ago, maqroll said:

I've been obsessing about the collapse of Yugoslavia and the wars there. It is chilling. There are tons of good videos on YT about it all. I'm reading a great book as well, it explains everything in very clear terms, and you're able to make some sense out of a very confusing situation. Those Serbs were total psychopaths.

Anyone have some good book recommendations on this subject?

It sounds like you have a good book recommendation! What are you reading?

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1 hour ago, maqroll said:

I've been obsessing about the collapse of Yugoslavia and the wars there. It is chilling. There are tons of good videos on YT about it all. I'm reading a great book as well, it explains everything in very clear terms, and you're able to make some sense out of a very confusing situation. Those Serbs were total psychopaths.

Anyone have some good book recommendations on this subject?

 

balkans.jpg

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1 hour ago, maqroll said:

I've been obsessing about the collapse of Yugoslavia and the wars there. It is chilling. There are tons of good videos on YT about it all. I'm reading a great book as well, it explains everything in very clear terms, and you're able to make some sense out of a very confusing situation. Those Serbs were total psychopaths.

Anyone have some good book recommendations on this subject?

It's staggering that it happened so recently and (maybe i'm wrong) but Europe just seemed to turn a blind eye to it for a long time?

I was in Yugoslavia in 1990 on a family holiday. Little did I know that less than a year later it would have all changed

 

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Interesting "Who Do You Think You Are" tonight - Sophie Raworth, the newsreader. She had nonconformist ancestors in Birmingham who were involved in the Priestley Riots. If you think politically sanctioned violence against minorities - including firebombing churches - is a modern phenomenon, read the Wikipedia article in the above link. 

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5 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

So yeah, probably boring for everyone else but I thought it was quite a good find.

I love old photos like that.

Tony Iommi (Black Sabbath) grew up on Park Lane, Aston in the 60's. Number 20 I think. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Xela said:

I love old photos like that.

Tony Iommi (Black Sabbath) grew up on Park Lane, Aston in the 60's. Number 20 I think. 

 

Yup, my mother in law lived opposite him I believe.

I wonder if he's in that Coronation photo? :detect:

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On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 08:08, maqroll said:

I've been obsessing about the collapse of Yugoslavia and the wars there. It is chilling. There are tons of good videos on YT about it all. I'm reading a great book as well, it explains everything in very clear terms, and you're able to make some sense out of a very confusing situation. Those Serbs were total psychopaths.

Anyone have some good book recommendations on this subject?

I'm off to Sarajevo on Sunday ,hoping to do a few of the war areas amongst others

 

looks like I could have done with longer out there but I'm sorta doing a 2 day detour on the way to joining the family in Hungary for Easter  ..

(just dropped them at the airport so party at mine :) )

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Back from Sarajevo where I've had a good education on events during the war.... Heck it's a complex place , on the  edge of Sarajevo ( might even be part of it as its close to the airport and the hills overlooking Sarajevo )you have the Serbian Republic where they are flying Serbian flags and even have a plaque erected to one of the war criminals saying along the lines of Thanks for your good work ... guess it would be like flying a swastika in Jerusalem with a plaque to Adolf saying good work !!

sounds like the Bosnians sorta want to forgive if not forget but it can't be long before the Sebs move again ... Bosnia is trying to join the EU sooner rather than later in the hope it might save them 

you can go up in the hills and see where the artillery and snipers had a clear  view of the city as they picked people off , the mortar shell holes are still there in places and the locals pant them red  

the tunnel of hope is also interesting , you can't walk the full 800m anymore as it's flooded but or was a lifeline for the city , the Serbs found out where it was thanks to the French telling them !! But it was kept operational 

interesting place worth a visit for those of you reading the books mentioned in this thread 

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Despite the slightly misleading headline ( the bomb contained no explosives or nuclear material )

this documentary on BBC 4 in May looks like it could be interesting 

 Dorking narrowly avoided 'nuclear bomb drop' fiasco

The dummy device was being flown to Orford Ness, a top secret military test site in Suffolk, in the early 1950s.

It came loose in the bomb bay while over the Surrey town, about 20 miles from London, but the bomb doors held.

An engineer who worked on the device said it was then dropped in the Thames estuary, where it remains to this day.

Fortunately, the device contained no explosives or nuclear material.

The revelation is made in a BBC Four documentary, Britain's Nuclear Bomb: The Inside Story.

Reg Milne, of the Royal Aircraft Establishment, told the programme: "One flight to Orford Ness, a bomb came loose over Dorking. It fell off its hook. 

"Luckily the bomb doors were strong enough to hold it."

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